Facebook   Twitter    YouTube    RSS Feed    Android App    iPhone and iPad App     BlackBerry App    
Subscribe to Newsletter



Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: CSI Miami doesn't happen in SA

  1. #1
    Super Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Durbanville, Cape Town
    Posts
    22,405

    Default CSI Miami doesn't happen in SA

    http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...5542963C833928

    CSI Miami doesn't happen in SA - De Lange

    By Gaye Davis

    One of South Africa's best-kept - and possibly most shameful - secrets is that "probably 50 percent" of scenes of violent crimes are never visited by a specialist crime scene investigator to search for the clues and evidence that could lead to tracking down a suspect and winning a conviction in court.

    In a country with one of the highest rates of violent crime in the world, that's a staggering statistic.

    But it comes from Johnny de Lange, the deputy justice minister, who has been given the job of heading up the government's mission to overhaul the criminal justice system.

    'CSI Miami is what we're talking about'
    "Crime scene investigators will admit this themselves," De Lange said in an interview. "It's because there are only about 1 800 of them.

    "Do the maths: of about 2,1 million crimes committed each year, perhaps more than a million of them are serious crimes that should have a crime scene investigator involved.

    "Without visiting the scene of the crime, the chances of finding the criminal and actually convicting them are zero.

    "CSI Miami is what we're talking about. A hair here, a drop of blood there, spilt water - but we don't do any of it. None."

    For De Lange, the co-ordinator of the Office for Criminal Justice Reform, the biggest problem isn't the courts with their backlogs of cases or the country's overcrowded jails. It's the fact that "we simply don't know who is committing the crimes.

    'We simply don't know who is committing the crimes'
    "In fact, the way the system works at the moment, they don't even keep crime scene statistics. Fingerprints and photographs - that's it."

    Not only are there too few specialist crime scene investigators, but the police are further hampered by the law itself. It limits them to using only the police's own AFIS fingerprint database of about 10 million prints, while details of people not convicted must, by law, be destroyed. That, says De Lange, is going to change, and fast.

    The Cabinet has given special approval for a new bill to be processed by the time Parliament is dissolved when President Kgalema Motlanthe announces the date for next year's elections, possibly in January or February. A special committee is to be appointed to fast-track the bill.

    Titled the Criminal Law (Forensic Procedures) Amendment Bill, it will allow police to access the department of home affairs' HANIS database of more than 33 million fingerprints, 2,5 million of them those of foreign nationals. And it will allow the police to comb through another 6 million thumbprints held in the transport department's eNatis system.

    It will give the police more powers over taking and storing fingerprints and, in a first for the country, it will provide for a DNA database to be used as a crime-fighting tool.

    "I was absolutely stunned when I found out the police don't have access to checking fingerprints against the other databases we have," De Lange said.

    "The police have been given more staff and equipment over the past three years, but they don't have a proper database. Britain has a database of about 4,5 million people. If they find evidence at a crime scene and run a check, they have a 52 percent success rate. In South Africa, with our non-existent database, we have a rate of 0,02 percent - we just don't get any hits."

    He wants the bill passed as soon as possible, so that IT systems can be put in place.

    The next step will be to take the 620 000 "latent" fingerprints and up to 80 000 palm-prints the police are sitting with - taken from crime scenes, but not matched to anybody - and run them through the databases "and see what we pick up".

    "Can you imagine how important this will be to police working on violent crimes, when you have a case that is dead and then, suddenly, you can pick up a whole lot of people from their fingerprints? This is going to make for some huge breakthroughs."

    With elections just around the corner, and crime a key election platform not only for the ANC but across all parties, getting the bill passed and the machinery put in place for well-publicised breakthroughs in solving old and new crimes is just what the spin-doctor might have ordered for a government perceived as unable to walk the talk on dealing with the scourge.

    "This is not just a political issue, it's about the way we live," said De Lange, speaking the day before he was due to attend the funeral of one of his staff, who was shot dead when he went outside his home to investigate noises at his car.

    De Lange recalls briefing the Cabinet on the extent of the problems uncovered by his in-depth review of the criminal justice system - and how former president Thabo Mbeki's "jaw dropped".

    He got a similar reaction when he spoke at the recent economic summit of the tripartite alliance, where senior ANC, South African Communist Party and Cosatu members were deeply shocked by what they heard.

    "Even the new ministers - they're stunned."

    Now, De Lange says, he has "total political buy-in from the top", although he's had to spend time rebriefing a new president, a new justice minister and a new safety and security minister, for starters.

    It will mean boosting capacity by four or fivefold and focusing on not only recruiting and training but also creating career-paths for detectives within the police force, so that skills aren't lost when they're promoted to drive a desk.

    For De Lange, the bill "gives us the opportunity to change the methodology of how crime scene investigators work.

    "Once criminals realise the system is starting to bite, it will become easier.

    "The problem at the moment is that criminals know they won't be brought to book. And ordinary people know that, too. You don't have to do a review and find statistics to prove that."
    I tried to crop the article but it needs to be read in its entirety.

    Did we never have a half-decent forensic service ?
    -
    Quote Originally Posted by lafrica View Post
    they (criminals ) are just trying to make a living .

  2. #2
    Super Grandmaster marine1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    A black hole in the universe - JHB
    Posts
    36,955

    Default

    We used to back in the old days.

  3. #3
    Super Grandmaster killadoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    South Africa.
    Posts
    46,585

    Default

    Dude CSI is the biggest bunch of crap, do they ever find DNA from someone who does not show up on their system?

    Is everyone in america on the DNA list, i get what your saying but i highly doubt CSI is even close to what happens in real life.

  4. #4
    Super Grandmaster marine1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    A black hole in the universe - JHB
    Posts
    36,955

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by killadoob View Post
    i highly doubt CSI is even close to what happens in real life.
    I agree completely.

  5. #5
    Grandmaster Jase's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Drilling holes in wet places ..
    Posts
    2,958

    Default

    Plus Hummers are waaay to expensive.
    If any question why we died tell them because our fathers lied

  6. #6
    Super Grandmaster killadoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    South Africa.
    Posts
    46,585

    Default

    Hahah way to expensive, plus with hummer dealer you would see a whole lot of these CSI okes arrive in their "free" harley

  7. #7
    Ancient Astronaut waynegohl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Planet X
    Posts
    40,615

    Default

    when we have a crime here everybody wants to be on the tv and they walk all over the crime scene whereas any where else in the world the crime scene is cordoned off.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jase View Post
    Plus Hummers are waaay to expensive.
    Think again...

    http://www.aquilaonline.co.za/2006/0...nd-in-hummers/

  9. #9
    Super Grandmaster marine1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    A black hole in the universe - JHB
    Posts
    36,955

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by quovadis View Post
    That was not an official police car.

  10. #10

    Default

    Well think of the Forensic Psychologists in the police. How truly unstimulating their environments must be! There is no "Bone Collector" in South Africa. Profiling is useless without a decent Forensics service and yes, scenes are trampled. No databases.

  11. #11

    Default

    I wonder if they will be allowed access to the finger print databases, i mean benefits aside i am sure there is some red tape w.r.t privacy etc. Another thing is for our population size, i am sure we have a greater % foreigners in our country.

    Anyways i know someone going into csi like work/job after studying at university. Hopefully the gov makes it an attractive career option and with the popularity of csi series they have some people interested.

    All in all it comes down to the same issue again, last 10 yrs investing and upgrading of many gov controlled things has been lacking. Makes you wonder what they did with surpluses as you always hear of underspending(besides corruption).
    When have you demonstrated leadership skills?
    "Well my best example would be in online video gaming. I pretty much run the show; it takes a lot to do that."

  12. #12

    Default

    have a look at this regarding the CSI Effect:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...i-effect_x.htm

    Because of the CSI shows, Jurors in the states sometimes have unrealistic expectations about what evidence should be provided in courts. At they same time, they are more knowledgeable and ask more questions.

  13. #13
    Super Grandmaster gregmcc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    17,447

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by killadoob View Post
    Dude CSI is the biggest bunch of crap
    What do you mean....aren't all ATM camera's 2048x1024 and can make out a person's face 500m away!

  14. #14
    Super Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Jwannesbek
    Posts
    5,439

    Default

    I'll use my favourite CA reply on these forums relating to stories about SA...

    Who'd have thunk it.


  15. #15

    Default

    No, no - they're going the wrong way with these fingerprint and dna databases. There are huge problems with trawling through large databases to match suspects, statistically, not to mention the privacy issues.

    Even the UK is having to back down and delete biometric details of those who were arrested but not convicted.

    That aside, the lack of forensics is ridiculous and something definitely needs to be done to build their capacity.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •