Cosatu: Re-nationalise Telkom

[BTTB]

http://www.finance24.co.za/Finance/C...0.html?kps=193

Cosatu: Re-nationalise Telkom
18/10/2004 18:59 - (SA)

Johannesburg - The Congress of South African Trade Unions (Cosatu) on Monday called upon government to re-nationalise Telkom following weekend media reports that African National Congress (ANC) heavyweights want a slice of the R6bn of Telkom shares.

"If it is true that ANC-aligned investors are lining up to buy shares, this clearly points to a potential conflict of interest and Cosatu will be seeking clarity from those comrades named in the Sunday Times article as to their intentions," said union spokesman Patrick Craven.

He was referring to an article in the Sunday Times headed "ANC big guns eye Telkom" claiming ANC heavyweights had entered the race for Telkom's shares.

Cosatu is opposed to the buying of shares in Telkom and the privatising of essential services.

Craven said Cosatu "deplores the way in which Telkom has been concentrating on purely commercial objectives and has let the maximisation of its profits take precedence over every other consideration like service to the customer and saving jobs".

Privatisation of Telkom had "been disastrous" as thousands of consumers had had their lines disconnected while the telephone service had deteriorated, Craven said.

He said privatisation had led to businesses paying exorbitant tariffs for telecommunications, "which has had damaging effects on the economy as a whole".

Thousands of Telkom workers had also lost their jobs or their jobs were under threat, he said.

Edited by Adrienne Taylor

<b>I read that Sunday Report. The person that did all the initial privatisation of Telkom, will now be owning shares in it. Erm, hello government, wake up now and smell the coffee. The dream of the New South Africa is being dominated by a new breed of capitalist. The Nats did similar things after 1948. Just seems history repeats itself and we never learn the lessons of it. The gravy train just gets longer in SA, with more carriages. This is ridiculous. Give the shares to the poor people. Re-do the mess that Jay Naidoo created and the state should be more open in their documentation in this regard. Secret Shareholder Agreements with Managerial Control is hardly what anyone wanted SA's Telkom to become. Who knows what is written in that agreement. Now the same people want to buy into those shares and continue with the mess we have already while we pay through our teeth for it. This is not what the people of SA voted for.
Anyone foresee a long drawn out enquiry one day like the Shabir Shaik case that’s taken the news spotlight recently.</b>

Disclaimer. These are my personal views and not necessarily the views of MyADSL.


<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">

[hArTh]

Uhmmm communism doesn't work. Take a tour of the former Soviet Union if you don't believe me.

Cosatu and its ideological allies need to loose their 20th century revolutionary ideological baggage.

The answer is simple. Split Telkom into 4 companies and let them dual it out. That will solve the service and price problems pronto as well as stimulate the whole telecoms / IT industry in ZA creating tens of thousands of jobs.

The only thing that should be nationalised is the SAT3 cable which should be run as a non-profit entity until commercial operators have laid at least another 4 cables at which time it can be sold to the highest bidder.

All this could be done tommorow at 08h00 with one stroke of Ivy's pen ...



-Information anarchist-
www.sentechhatesfreespeech.org.za
I support:
www.hellkom.co.za
www.poopband.co.za

[mbs]

No. And 46 million times again, NO. Telkrap belongs to the total citizenry of the country, and was created on the backs of all of us and our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents, as with most state utilities. It's bad enough that some of the family jewels are currently owned by foreign rip-off artists. I'm 150% behind COSATU on this one - and that's not communism, nor was the abortion that the Soviet Union eventually became...

[LethalChicken]

I'm from easter europe .. so i second the communism don't work bit ... and let the bastards nationalize telkom ... even better ... then when private organizations start delivering real service nobody will even remember telkom who by then will be charging 7 cows for a short smoke signal message ... (SMS - smoke message service)

We are Telkom - Resistance is Futile - You will be Assimilated

[Spamtheman]

If you truly believe that China and the USSR where actual examples of communism then you had better go back and do some reading, neither are true representations of the communist ideal, exactly the way that the USA is a faulty image of capitalism. The real problem with both extremes is that people are put into positions where they can succumb to greed, just like we are seeing now.

[stoke]

And it gets worse. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. I am so incredibly surprised. *Not*.
Well - I wonder how many Teklom shares Cosatu top-line members own.
Imagine the share price jump if governmint decide to do a re-nationalisation of Teklom.

Let the damn competition begin already. FFS.

The more you know - the worse it gets.

[MaD]

As far as I know communication is a basic right - and as such should be provided by Government as it is their duty to look after a country and ensure peoples rights are not infringed upon.

<b>Telkom by means of their pricing are infringing on people's right to communication, which is counter to law. Which means that Government, owning 39% of Telkom, is breaking their own law.</b>





<font color="navy"><font size="1"><b>Where others have progress, we have Telkom.</b>
Hellkom website - www.hellkom.co.za</font id="size1"></font id="navy">

[serpentwolf]

im behind cosatu...
and im behind communism. Im behind Lenin. You, who said it failed, Communism never existed, it never had a chance... You should study and read more before you claim USSR was communist.

Nationalise Telkom....

[hArTh]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mbs</i>
<br />No. And 46 million times again, NO. Telkrap belongs to the total citizenry of the country, and was created on the backs of all of us and our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents, as with most state utilities. It's bad enough that some of the family jewels are currently owned by foreign rip-off artists. I'm 150% behind COSATU on this one - and that's not communism, nor was the abortion that the Soviet Union eventually became...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You're very naive if you believe Telkom would provide globally competitive service and pricing if run by the government. How do you think Telkom aquired the greedy and anti-consumer mentality they are currently inflicting on us? Their years as a government department.

Governments have no business trying to run commercial enterprises. They are not business people. This has been proven over and over and over and over ...

The way you solve the problem is by creating a level open playing field that lets the business people tear each others' throats out via free competition. The man in the street then enjoys dirt cheap services as a result. Free market economics quickly strips any company of excessive profits by encouraging others to enter the arena. This is the situation in the first world and increasingly in many third world countries too.

There wont be any "foreign rip-off artists" in a truely competitive environement. PS: Who do you think gave SBC and Telkom Malaysia a free pass to rape the people of ZA? Our own fscking government! They've fsked us all over and you want to put back everything into thir hands?! Jesus ...

Who gives a flying fsck about "family jewels"? Telkom is an abomination and should be sacrificed on the alter on free competition as soon as possible. What people need are affordable basic services which they can build a better life on. Where they get those services from is relevant.

PS: Zealots who rush to repeadtedly bash their heads against the wall (and enslave whole nations) in a futile search for ever more "pure" implementations of idealogies such as communism are very dangerous. Hitler believed that Germany wasn't "pure" enough and that's why it had lost WW1. So he tried to re-create Germany as a pure Aryan nation which he believed would make it a paradise on Earth. Lenin, Stalin, Mao all had similar dreams. Tens of millions of people died as a result of their social experiments ...



-Information anarchist-
www.sentechhatesfreespeech.org.za
I support:
www.hellkom.co.za
www.poopband.co.za

[mbs]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You're very naive if you believe Telkom would provide globally competitive service and pricing if run by the government. How do you think Telkom aquired the greedy and anti-consumer mentality they are currently inflicting on us? Their years as a government department.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I did not say that Telkrap should be run by Government, nor do I believe that it should be so. Furthermore, naïvety is evidenced by your supposition that the current Telkrap culture was 'acquired' from Government - that's BS of the first order, IMHO, and typical politico-speak. It so happens that like all state utilities, it suffers from the crises of change brought about by the need for transformation. This has resulted in some difficult challenges for them, not least the removal of the 'jobs-for-life' syndrome for a sector of society and their staffing establishment, the need to generate their own operating capital and shareholder dividends, the need to meet their new societal obligations, and so on. I certainly am not trying to be an apologist for their mismanagement, far from it - instead, this serves to highlight the fact that their 'greedy and anti-consumer mentality' is their mismanaged approach to transformation, and has nothing to do with Government. There are any number of ways they could've achieved their transformation objectives without mismanaging it. Indeed, Government may have created the scenario for Telkrap's mismanagement, but that scenario is a consequence of the change in Government itself, due to the fact that millions more now have a political voice. There is no evidence that Government has actively promoted Telkrap's mismanagement - in point of fact, the contrary is clearly evident, particularly in the light of Dr Ivy's announcements.

It should also be clear that my point is centred around the question of ownership - private business has no right of ownership to public assets, nor should Government dispose of such public assets without considered evaluation of the consequences to its citizenry. If not, read my post again.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Governments have no business trying to run commercial enterprises. They are not business people. This has been proven over and over and over and over ...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I don't disagree. Irrespective of whether they are business people or not, it's not their job. Their job is to make policy, pass laws, and provide the structural mechanisms for a civil service, nothing else.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The way you solve the problem is by creating a level open playing field that lets the business people tear each others' throats out via free competition. The man in the street then enjoys dirt cheap services as a result. Free market economics quickly strips any company of excessive profits by encouraging others to enter the arena. This is the situation in the first world and increasingly in many third world countries too.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ah - another free marketer gives voice to the belief that this will be the universal panacea for all consumer woes! I've said enough about this fallacy elsewhere on this forum. The harsh reality is simply that free market approaches will never resolve inequity where it exists - the haves will enjoy the consequential benefits of their disposable income, whilst the have-nots will suck the hind tit, as usual. That's why you need some sort of regulation, to ensure equable societal development.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">There wont be any "foreign rip-off artists" in a truely competitive environement. PS: Who do you think gave SBC and Telkom Malaysia a free pass to rape the people of ZA? Our own fscking government! They've fsked us all over and you want to put back everything into thir hands?! Jesus ...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Rubbish. A 'truly competitive' environment will never exist in practical terms - there are always other considerations that arise, including collusion, price fixing, 'off-set' agreements, and so on. Concerning the SBC/Malaysia debacle, a little bit of reading will highlight the fact that at the time it was considered one of the best deals on the planet, to achieve real transformation. The collapse of the telco sector resulted in this not being the best deal after all, admittedly, but this cannot be blamed on Government. Had this not happened, the SNO would've been in place, Telkrap would've had serious competition, and the foreigners would've been prevented from creaming off the top.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Who gives a flying fsck about "family jewels"? Telkom is an abomination and should be sacrificed on the alter on free competition as soon as possible. What people need are affordable basic services which they can build a better life on. Where they get those services from is relevant.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I do. Those jewels were acquired with my tax money, and with the excessively high payments for the sub-standard services they provide. There is no way that such assets must be disposed of willy-nilly for the sake of 'free competition', which will not guarantee affordable basic services, in any case. The contrary has in fact proven to be true - I remember reading something about increased charges for water at one of the smaller towns, subsequent to the involvement of a British utility <i>a la</i> 'free competition'.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">PS: Zealots who rush to repeadtedly bash their heads against the wall (and enslave whole nations) in a futile search for ever more "pure" implementations of idealogies such as communism are very dangerous. Hitler believed that Germany wasn't "pure" enough and that's why it had lost WW1. So he tried to re-create Germany as a pure Aryan nation which he believed would make it a paradise on Earth. Lenin, Stalin, Mao all had similar dreams. Tens of millions of people died as a result of their social experiments ...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I don't disagree. Fanaticism of any kind has no place in the modern world, whether it applies to political ideologies, religious belief, economic theory, or any kind of milieu or context you care to mention. For that very reason, discard the idea of 'true competition' and 'free markets', and adopt an eclectic and non-emotive approach to the issues at hand - you'll be better off for it, and would be able to wear the 'information anarchist' appellation with pride...

[ernstn]

I hope that Telkom will never be nationalised again and certainly not at the stage where they start to fail. The government should remove all obstacles from anybody entering the telecommunications area and because Telkom is at the moment making obscene profits from an infrastructure that was paid for by previous governments and thus our taxes, there should be an ADDITIONAL TAX on rheir profits, which can be offset by either supplying infrastucture or working capital to valid startup companies. The price of entry is too high to start up at national level and people should be able to provide telecoms in small areas or niche markets. If all the laws that Telkom use to defend their position so vehemently, are repealed (and especialliy ICASA's approval process) Telkom's lawyers departments will not be necessary( leading to more extra taxes on extra profits) and companies can enter the market without having to outlay huge amounts of money upfront for approval or lawsuits.

Once the market has been levelled like this, I believe it will not take forever forTelkom to be second in the race. THAT is the moment where the Government should let the giant die on its own and we will all have a party in the streets.

The Sentech debale also proved how willing each and everyone of Telkom,s customers are to jumo ship, thus showing how easy it is for a worthy entrant into yje market to quickly take a share of Telkom away

[pat22]

British Telecom was paid for with tax payers money. I don't think the Brits give a damn 20 years after the privitisation process started that their tax investment was given away. They are reaping the benefit of being able to choose from around 150 phone companies/providers now and hundreds of ISPs.

BT prices/service in the 1970s = Telkom prices/service 2004. Competition is the only way.

[dominic]

communism typifies man's inhumanity to man; capitalism is the reverse

fact is we are being screwed and will continue to be screwed until such time as consumers get a voice and a forum to make it heard; i support the COSATU call insofar as they are bitching about individuals making a killing on the back of the continued economic impoverishment of the country

re-nationalising telkom is not, however, the answer to anything

there are no experts - we are all flying by the seats of our pants

[LethalChicken]

Well why don't we just make telkom part of the post office again and there wan't be any more problems

We are Telkom - Resistance is Futile - You will be Assimilated

[Spamtheman]

"communism typifies man's inhumanity to man; capitalism is the reverse"

What the hell does that mean? Trust me, capitalism has plenty of inhumanity too.