uPVC Windows & Doors in South Africa

[Velenoso]

Hey guys,

Hope everyone is alive and well.

I want to ask you guys what you think of uPVC Windows and Doors? They've been in use in Europe for years, but the uptake seems slow here in South Africa. I was in the DR Congo for the last two months and I met a Turkish guy there who has a uPVC factory in Turkey and Austria.

I have found a few companies that seem to do it here in SA:
http://www.jorgensen.co.za/products.htm
http://www.koolwindows.co.za/
http://www.protech-upvc.co.za/

I called these guys up for a quote and they're charging way too much. I can get it manufactured in Turkey and shipped here to specification for half the price. Alternatively I can set up a factory here for $100,000.

Keep in mind that there is now a new law in South Africa, requiring the use of double glazed windows on all new buildings. All uPVC products are double glazed and shatter proof.

So the benefits over wooden and aluminium windows are as follows:

Maintenance Free
Lifetime Guarantee
Double Glazed & Shatterproof
Tilt and Turn System (windows open in various ways, upward, downward, etc all with one handle)
Energy Saving (Use less energy to heat or cool home)
Sound Proof
Magnetic blinds built into the glass (optional extra)
100% bio-degradable.

So what do you guys figure? Will it take off in South Africa?

[BCO]

Hey guys,

Hope everyone is alive and well.

I want to ask you guys what you think of uPVC Windows and Doors? They've been in use in Europe for years, but the uptake seems slow here in South Africa. I was in the DR Congo for the last two months and I met a Turkish guy there who has a uPVC factory in Turkey and Austria.

I have found a few companies that seem to do it here in SA:
http://www.jorgensen.co.za/products.htm
http://www.koolwindows.co.za/
http://www.protech-upvc.co.za/

I called these guys up for a quote and they're charging way too much. I can get it manufactured in Turkey and shipped here to specification for half the price. Alternatively I can set up a factory here for $100,000.

Keep in mind that there is now a new law in South Africa, requiring the use of double glazed windows on all new buildings. All uPVC products are double glazed and shatter proof.

So the benefits over wooden and aluminium windows are as follows:

Maintenance Free
Lifetime Guarantee
Double Glazed & Shatterproof
Tilt and Turn System (windows open in various ways, upward, downward, etc all with one handle)
Energy Saving (Use less energy to heat or cool home)
Sound Proof
Magnetic blinds built into the glass (optional extra)
100% bio-degradable.

So what do you guys figure? Will it take off in South Africa?

If I were building a house I would certainly consider these.

[lucifir]

sounds like a plan ..... how much more expensive than aluminium is this??

[RetroBok]

Double glazing deffo has it's benefits, especially here in the U.K. when without it you could potentially be sitting next to the heater and freezing your nuts off.

I didn't know it was now a legal requirement in S.A. It's a good thing really since it insulates the house more and therefore saves energy etc.

However that said, in the U.K. the Window and double glazing industry is somewhat of a cowboy industry... I'm sure once it takes hold in S.A. the same will be said of the industry in S.A.

Since all new houses will require it, I can just imagine the tenders going out from government

I'd say go for it dude, it may be a very over looked niche?

[BCO]

Looking for business partners, perchance?

[Drunkard #1]

I saw these at a building expo a few years back. I just don't trust them. Our Highveld climate is quite different to the UK/Turkey/DRC.

I'll give them 20 years or so to prove themselves in SA before I pay good money for them.

Also, there is NO law requiring double glasing to be installed in new houses, and I doubt that such a law will be implemented without a proper cost/benefit analysis being conducted based on LOCAL standards.

[RetroBok]

I saw these at a building expo a few years back. I just don't trust them. Our Highveld climate is quite different to the UK/Turkey/DRC.

I'll give them 20 years or so to prove themselves in SA before I pay good money for them.

Also, there is NO law requiring double glasing to be installed in new houses, and I doubt that such a law will be implemented without a proper cost/benefit analysis being conducted based on LOCAL standards.

S.A. doesn't only consist of the highveld?

[Drunkard #1]

S.A. doesn't only consist of the highveld?

From an economic point of view, it's mostly Highveld, with a few villages on the coast.

[RetroBok]

From an economic point of view, it's mostly Highveld, with a few villages on the coast.

Hahahaha I want to say this is true, but I'd offend people and I leave my offensive stuff for CA

[Velenoso]

I saw these at a building expo a few years back. I just don't trust them. Our Highveld climate is quite different to the UK/Turkey/DRC.

I'll give them 20 years or so to prove themselves in SA before I pay good money for them.

Also, there is NO law requiring double glasing to be installed in new houses, and I doubt that such a law will be implemented without a proper cost/benefit analysis being conducted based on LOCAL standards.

Yes there is. Gazette #204.

The point is, it can survive any climate as it is not affected by it like wood/aluminum. They use it in Russia at -20 tempratures and in Turkey which gets just as hot as here. It's been in use for around 25 years in Europe.

Looking for business partners, perchance?

I might be looking for investors if I decide to open the factory. I already own a property where I can put the factory. Drop me a PM.

sounds like a plan ..... how much more expensive than aluminium is this??

It's cheaper. Also bear in mind, aluminium is currently not double glazed.

[Drunkard #1]

Yes there is. Gazette #204.

Sorry, where?

[ToxicBunny]

Velenoso : Could you perhaps post a link to that Government Gazette you are mentioning because I can't seem to find it.

[Velenoso]

Morning guys. I will have a look for it.

Edit: My mistake guys, must have had too much wine last night.

http://www.epsasa.co.za/Documents/PD...able_Homes.pdf

'The above must be read in conjunction with Government Gazette #26169 of 14 May ..... improved if double glazed. Figure 10.20 – Properties of clear glass ...'

[germanpip]

Hi, just read your thoughts about uPVC windows and doors.

I am a partner in a uPVC window business in Cape Town, we use profiles extruded in Germany, all of our profiles are specially extruded for South Africa. We cut weld and assemble our windows and doors in Cape Town. We have been manufacturing in Cape Town for around 4 years and previously we were manufacturing in England for 19 years.

The problem with importing ready made windows and doors from Turkey, Europe, Asia or North America is that their profiles do not contain enough Titanium Dioxide, this is the additive which ensures that the profiles do not crack and remain white. Not one single extruder of uPVC profiles in any of these areas adds enough Titanium Dioxide for South Africa - the reason is that it adds to the cost and is not necessary for those climates. It has very little to do with the heat as you suggested. So what ever you do, DO NOT import ready made windows - THEY ARE NOT UV STABLE in South Africa. Sub Saharan Africa has some of the highest solar radiation in the world.

Any company that offers you a lifetime guarantee on their profiles is offering you the impossible. The worlds largest extruders of uPVC window profiles do not even offer lifetime guarantees on their profiles - the best they offer is a 10 year guarantee on the colour fasteness even though they last a lot longer.

Another thing to stay away from is the wooden look - their are a couple of manufacturers offering lifetimes guarantees which are also completely useless. The 2 largest manufacturers of the wooden look foils only guarantee their foils for a maximum of 5 & 7 years respectively in South Africa - they do not encourage their use here.

[Velenoso]

Hi, just read your thoughts about uPVC windows and doors.

I am a partner in a uPVC window business in Cape Town, we use profiles extruded in Germany, all of our profiles are specially extruded for South Africa. We cut weld and assemble our windows and doors in Cape Town. We have been manufacturing in Cape Town for around 4 years and previously we were manufacturing in England for 19 years.

The problem with importing ready made windows and doors from Turkey, Europe, Asia or North America is that their profiles do not contain enough Titanium Dioxide, this is the additive which ensures that the profiles do not crack and remain white. Not one single extruder of uPVC profiles in any of these areas adds enough Titanium Dioxide for South Africa - the reason is that it adds to the cost and is not necessary for those climates. It has very little to do with the heat as you suggested. So what ever you do, DO NOT import ready made windows - THEY ARE NOT UV STABLE in South Africa. Sub Saharan Africa has some of the highest solar radiation in the world.

Any company that offers you a lifetime guarantee on their profiles is offering you the impossible. The worlds largest extruders of uPVC window profiles do not even offer lifetime guarantees on their profiles - the best they offer is a 10 year guarantee on the colour fasteness even though they last a lot longer.

Another thing to stay away from is the wooden look - their are a couple of manufacturers offering lifetimes guarantees which are also completely useless. The 2 largest manufacturers of the wooden look foils only guarantee their foils for a maximum of 5 & 7 years respectively in South Africa - they do not encourage their use here.

Hi there. Thanks for your thoughts.

As it happens I am currently leaning against this project. I am speaking with several architects. If I can get one of them to agree to use uPVC in a large development, then I will look at it again.

The capital outlay (advertising, showrooms, etc) to convince South Africans about this 'new' product is huge and there is no guarantee so I'm not prepared to invest in it at this time.