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Thread: 'Difficult' for judge to rule on bull killing

  1. #1

    Thumbs down 'Difficult' for judge to rule on bull killing

    A Pietermaritzburg High Court judge on Tuesday avoided making a ruling on whether to stop a bull killing ritual.

    "I suggest that all parties sit down and agree whether video footage can be taken during the ritual so that this matter can be handled by Parliament," said Judge Nic Van der Reyden.

    He said it was difficult for him to rule on the matter, saying that the bull killing ritual went to the heart of Zulu tradition.

    The judge said he was not trying to dodge making a ruling but it would be suitable for Parliament to deal with the matter if evidence was found that the bull was killed in a cruel manner.

    Animal Rights Africa (ARA) had taken the Zulu king and KwaZulu-Natal premier Zweli Mkhize to court to stop the Ukweshwama ritual, scheduled to take place on December 5 at Zwelithini's palace in Nongoma.

    A bull is killed during Ukweshwama as a symbolic way of thanking God for the first crops of the season. ARA argues that the manner in which bulls are killed during the ritual is cruel.

    The judge likened the stopping of the bull killing to ordering Catholics to stop eating the Holly Communion.

    He said the issue of bull killing needed to be looked at in a proper context, saying he believed it was not done by crazy people.

    "This has been done for years. It is done by the Zulus who constitute the biggest population in this country. There are about 10 million Zulus in this country," he said.

    He said many young Xhosa men died every year during circumcision rituals but the ritual was not stopped because it was important to the Xhosas.

    The judge asked the applicant's lawyer Michael Smithers if he thought Parliament was not aware of the bull killing ritual.

    Smithers said he was not sure if Parliament was aware.

    "Are you telling me that the President [Jacob Zuma] is not aware? He is Zulu. He must be aware of this."

    The judge said his understanding was that by killing the bull, the Zulus believed they were transferring power to their king.

    "If I rule that the bull should not be killed it means that the power will not be transferred to the king. Let's say the king is struck by lightening after the ruling, people will say it is because I have interrupted their ritual," said the judge.

    He described the Zulus as a proud nation with a very rich history.

    "They are a very proud nation. The British lost their battles to the Zulus."

    Smithers argued that his clients had tried several times to engage the king and government on the issue of bull killing.

    "The matter was taken to court after my clients failed several times to get an opportunity to discus this matter," said Smithers.

    The affected parties were expected to tell the judge after lunch if they agreed to his proposal to take video footage during the upcoming ritual which would be used to analyse if the killing was cruel.

    The court proceedings were attended by scores of members of the Zulu royal family including King Goodwill Zwelithini's brother Prince Mbonisi Zulu and senior Prince Reggie Zulu.

    The case, which has attracted much media attention, was also attended by Zulu culture experts including a team of Zulu scholars and members of the KwaZulu-Natal legislature.

    The courtroom was packed with people wearing Zulu attire.

    The authorities decided to use a bigger court to accommodate the scores of people interested in the case. This was the same court where Zuma's corruption trial was held. - Sapa
    Source: IOL

    Sorry, but I firmly believe that this judge was dodging making a decision. The precedent of what occurs at this "ritual" has been set and a decision could easily be made. Granted, not necessarily the preferred decision to one party or another. But why delay the inevitable?

    I think, largely, everyone believes that it will go in favour of the Zulu culture anyway, not that this should be an excuse to just shrug it off either.

    I wonder how those virginity tests, garlic and beetroot cures et al are going The mentality in this world astounds me.

    The Spanish have their bullfights, the Americans have their rodeos, Japan apparently likes their dolphins, the Faroe Islands like their whale-slaying to prove their manhood...

    Evil begets evil, and each uses the next as a scapegoat to excuse their own actions and bloodlust.

    People disgust me

  2. #2

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    "If I rule that the bull should not be killed it means that the power will not be transferred to the king. Let's say the king is struck by lightening after the ruling, people will say it is because I have interrupted their ritual," said the judge.
    Should a judge be concerned about what the people will think or say as opposed to what is right or wrong?

    What about the baby rapists who strongly believe that their aids will be cured when doing the deed? Will the police and justice department be blamed for preventing this rapist from getting his "cure", assuming he was caught just before doing it?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowcheetah View Post
    Should a judge be concerned about what the people will think or say as opposed to what is right or wrong?

    What about the baby rapists who strongly believe that their aids will be cured when doing the deed? Will the police and justice department be blamed for preventing this rapist from getting his "cure", assuming he was caught just before doing it?
    Most (if not all) laws are based on what people (the majority) believe is right or wrong; not what may or may not be right or wrong. After all, how do you determine what is right and what is wrong? Personally, I believe, when you have the choice, the lesser evil as being right.

    Think gay rights, animal rights, legal age of consent, etc. It largely depends on what the majority of the populous believes in and whether you do or not, you can be held accountable for not following those laws.

    Laws, in general, are grossly selective

    This judge dodged having ye olde poop hitting the fan in his general direction. I'm unimpressed.

  4. #4

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    Politicians, Judiciary and the Press. Three cornerstones of a successful democracy. All three here are a mess and infested with morons

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Politicians, Judiciary and the Press. Three cornerstones of a successful democracy. All three here are a mess and infested with morons
    I couldn't agree more

  6. #6

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    I see it's another Pietermaritzburg judge too, remember that idiot Nicholson

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I see it's another Pietermaritzburg judge too, remember that idiot Nicholson
    Yup. They're not exactly coming across as being the most decisive, neutral or uninfluenced bunch

  8. #8
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    What a pathetic load of drivel - and this from a judge ?

    How do you compare eating a wafer or a drop of wine with torturing a live animal !
    A judge is there to pronounce on law regardless of whether or not it will offend anyone.

    I suggest that all parties sit down and agree whether video footage can be taken during the ritual so that this matter can be handled by Parliament

    So what - slaughter the animal and then look at the video to see if it is legal ??

    If we had 10 million muslims would he allow a video of someone's hand being cut off then sending the video to parliament to decide on ?!

    Pure unadulterated drivel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafrica View Post
    they (criminals ) are just trying to make a living .

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthrope View Post
    Yup. They're not exactly coming across as being the most decisive, neutral or uninfluenced bunch
    The law it seems is just a worthless piece of paper over there
    Last edited by Alan; 01-12-2009 at 05:14 PM.

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    The judge said he was not trying to dodge making a ruling but it would be suitable for Parliament to deal with the matter if evidence was found that the bull was killed in a cruel manner.
    Hmmm ... has this judge read a newspaper in the last few weeks? We all know how this bull is going to be killed, and it's far from humane.
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  11. #11

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    This offends me...the Bull is sacred in hindu culture.

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    Excellent point - minorities have equal rights so tell the judge the Hindus will be offended if he allows it to go ahead...

    Rule on the legality mr judge - that's your job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafrica View Post
    they (criminals ) are just trying to make a living .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun108 View Post
    This offends me...the Bull is sacred in hindu culture.
    Then almost every supermarket in the country must offend you as well, since they sell prime beef.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthrope View Post

    People disgust me
    There is much evil in especially SA but much of it comes down from the break down of discipline amongst the youngsters. Teaching the little punks respect through a tough rule of the chiefs/elders/parents can help recover some respect for tradition/life/authority in this crazy-as_ liberal left wing world where no one is accountable for anything. If anything reinforcing old Zulu traditions is a good thing - and if killing a few bulls (which would be killed anyway) can help keep some kids in line, I'm all for it.

    As for being disgusted by people, what disgusts me more is murder and rape. We have lots of both, to be disgusted by some bull killing while people die everyday from crime and negligence is quite inappropriate to say the least.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowcheetah View Post
    Should a judge be concerned about what the people will think or say as opposed to what is right or wrong?
    If he was privately threatened, yes.

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