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Thread: Women in the Netherlands work less, have big gender pay gap, and love it!

  1. #1
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    Default Women in the Netherlands work less, have big gender pay gap, and love it!

    http://www.slate.com/id/2274736
    I've been in the Netherlands for nearly three months now, and I've come to one overwhelming conclusion: Dutch women are not like me. I worry about my career incessantly. I take daily stock of its trajectory and make vicious mental critiques of my endeavors. And I know—based on weekly phone conversations with friends in the United States—that my masochistic drive for success is widely shared among my female friends. Meanwhile, the Dutch women around me take a lackadaisical approach to their careers. They work half days, meet their friends for coffee at 2 p.m., and pity their male colleagues who are stuck in the office all day.
    ...
    Dutch women could be considered extremely progressive when compared with most other women in the world—they have enviable reproductive rights and rates of political participation. But they are often responsible for only a small portion of the family income—25 percent of Dutch women do not even make enough money to be considered financially independent. The gap in pay between genders is among the highest in Europe, but because women are working only part time, this is not fodder for gender wars. Instead, women are more concerned with protecting their right to part-time work. In 2000, a law was passed mandating that women have the right to cut back hours at their jobs without repercussions from employers.
    ...
    Dutch women's refusal to seek longer hours has long bewildered economists. In the spring, the United Nations, suspicious that there was something keeping women from full-time jobs, launched an inquiry to see whether the Netherlands was in compliance with the women's rights treaty. A comprehensive 2009 study by Alison L. Booth & Jan C. Van Ours looked at the amount of time women in the Netherlands spend at work compared with women in other European countries. The authors assumed that part-time work was less desirable but ultimately confirmed that Dutch women don't want to spend more time at work. The NIS News Bulletin interpreted the results of the study as: "Attempts to get more women working full-time are doomed to failure because nobody has a desire for this. Both the women themselves and their partners and employers are satisfied with the Dutch part-time culture for women."
    Check link for full article

    Interesting read. What do our local ladies think?
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    Super Grandmaster blunomore's Avatar
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    Seems logical to me: you werk less and your pay package will be smaller.

  3. #3
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    Thanks. Very interesting but

    In 2000, a law was passed mandating that women have the right to cut back hours at their jobs without repercussions from employers.
    What?

    Both the women themselves and their partners and employers are satisfied with the Dutch part-time culture for women."
    What?

    Does anyone have a synonym for Going Dutch cause I don't think it is fitting anymore.
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  4. #4

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    No wonder Europeans are happier, they chose not to work too hard! Now that's the place to be.

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    I support the Dutch.

    I do not like the creeping "Americanisation" of the work culture into other countries where they live to work and only get 3 weeks worth of holidays each year.

    No sense of work/life balance is bad...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicci View Post
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    Super Grandmaster blunomore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I support the Dutch.

    I do not like the creeping "Americanisation" of the work culture into other countries where they live to work and only get 3 weeks worth of holidays each year.

    No sense of work/life balance is bad...
    What if you need the money ?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I support the Dutch.

    I do not like the creeping "Americanisation" of the work culture into other countries where they live to work and only get 3 weeks worth of holidays each year.

    No sense of work/life balance is bad...
    Better get used to it. The days of the free and easy lifestyle are coming to an end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I support the Dutch.

    I do not like the creeping "Americanisation" of the work culture into other countries where they live to work and only get 3 weeks worth of holidays each year.

    No sense of work/life balance is bad...
    Only 3 weeks ????

    How many do you get ? I only get 3
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    Quote Originally Posted by blunomore View Post
    What if you need the money ?
    Yeah obviously then you can't take the holiday. But let's take the general case here - 3 weeks is too little IMO. Also they hardly have any public holidays, so they have a double whammy .

    I'm pretty one of the reasons why there are many 'broken' families in the developed world is precisely because both parents are working full-time. I suppose one could argue that is not because of the obsession with getting wealthy but simply to make ends meet.

    Nerfherder: I thought 4 weeks is the standard in SA? Or am I wrong? Also in SA one gets plenty of public holidays which should extend one's paid leave to ~ 5.5 weeks.
    Last edited by Chris; 23-11-2010 at 02:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicci View Post
    Why is your name Polish? You are not black?

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    Good principal. Specially for woman that want kids.
    You cannot cry equality and then stay home because your kids are sick or do not have a baby sitter, have maternity leave 5 times and and.
    I agree with this and I applaud them for being able to make the choice.

    Was the liberation of women not more about the choices they can have than Women working themselves to death at work and at home?
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    No wonder, they don't have to support half the dark continent.

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    Are men extended the same rights to part-time work?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Yeah obviously then you can't take the holiday. But let's take the general case here - 3 weeks is too little IMO. Also they hardly have any public holidays, so they have a double whammy .

    I'm pretty one of the reasons why there are many 'broken' families in the developed world is precisely because both parents are working full-time. I suppose one could argue that is not because of the obsession with getting wealthy but simply to make ends meet.

    Nerfherder: I thought 4 weeks is the standard in SA? Or am I wrong? Also in SA one gets plenty of public holidays which should extend one's paid leave to ~ 5.5 weeks.
    Three weeks is the legal minimum in South Africa, but four weeks is fairly common. In the US I think you'd be lucky to get three weeks. Some people don't even get two.

    Quote Originally Posted by evilstebunny View Post
    No wonder, they don't have to support half the dark continent.
    Eastern Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja'd View Post
    What?
    That does not necessarily mean not getting less pay. It could mean not being fired or not being given lower pay increases or not being passed over for promotion because they refuse to allow themselves to be enslaved to an employer. In what are euphemistically called right to work states in the US they can just fire you on the spot for any reason.

    From what I've seen working hours and leave are quite reasonable in Western Europe.

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    I once saw a cartoon about a secretary doing nothing and then being reprimanded by her boss for sitting idle. She responded with, that if women do a job they do it right the first time which leaves then plenty of "free" time.

  15. #15

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    I honestly do not see how the current system works. The majority of people are stuck in jobs they don't like coz they need to pay the bills and support their families. You work 5 days a week so you can actually live for 2.

    Am I the only one who thinks that is actually really *&^%$# up?

    Kudos to the female population of the Netherlands, you've got the right attitude. Life is for living.

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