Facebook   Twitter    YouTube    RSS Feed    Android App    iPhone and iPad App     BlackBerry App    
Subscribe to Newsletter



Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 7 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 91

Thread: Incompatibility of free will with an omnipotent/omniscient creator

  1. #76
    Super Grandmaster HapticSimian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    14,516

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SEF View Post
    That's the thing. Benevolent forces don't want to interfere. They accept everyone has free will.
    Free will is our natural state. Our body is a prison, and we can only do very limited things with it. That's why we crave free will and our true natural state because without the body, we can do anything.
    G'day, SEF. Apologies for interjecting so rudely - my tolly-meter woke me...

    Without the body cease to exist. Please offer some evidence if you wish to attest otherwise.
    In the Age of Information
    ignorance is a choice

  2. #77
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there
    Posts
    1,620
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by copacetic View Post
    Fair enough. I'm curious then, what you personally think will happen to me if I drop dead right away?

    So you don't follow the bible?
    I study the bible, but i don't follow it. There's valuable information in there that compliments other sacred texts like the koran and the gita. They all compliment each other.

    What will happen to you ? You will just cross over and choose your path from there.

  3. #78
    King of the Hippies copacetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    49,270
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SEF View Post
    I study the bible, but i don't follow it. There's valuable information in there that compliments other sacred texts like the koran and the gita. They all compliment each other.

    What will happen to you ? You will just cross over and choose your path from there.
    Interesting.

    Well, the bottom line is that you are inventing realities for which there is zero evidence.

    Which is fine, just not particularly useful in my view.
    Behind every dark cloud lies the sun, waiting to boil you alive.

  4. #79
    Super Grandmaster OrbitalDawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Aboard the Nostalgia For Infinity
    Posts
    14,285

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SEF View Post
    What's wrong with contradiction ? Contradictions that exist. For instance. Both light and dark exist. Why not just one or the other ?

    Peace and violence. That's a contradiction.

    There's contradictions all over the place.

    People are too hung up on contradictions and too hung up on trying to make sense out of everything. Instead of just accepting things for what they are. The universe is infinite and evolving. There will always be things playing out against each other which "don't make sense"

    A creator has to be omniscient otherwise there would not be spiritual evolution. A creator can know everything, and you can still have free will. Free will to do whatever you want. The main focus is your spiritual evolution.

    A creator has to be omnipotence otherwise there would not be creation.

    The problem arises in the definition of the Creator and what the Creator actually does. It's usually convoluted to such an extent that the Creator is made out to be tyranical and a bully.

    Which is not only unfair but completely incorrect.
    What do you mean with "spiritual evolution"? And where'd you come up with your idea of what this creator is, or isn't? Why do you think such a creator exists? How do you know he wants harmony in the cosmos?

    As I pointed out in a previous post, we cannot just "do what we want", our options are actually extremely limited, given all the hypothetical possibilities.

    It is also hypothetically possible for a creator to not be omnipotent. His only power could be to create, as in a once-off kind of thing. I'm not sure you realise what omnipotence entails...

    Quote Originally Posted by eshwar
    Simple, your choice is not predetermined but the choice you end up making is known. So, you have free will... And for everyone here who doesn't believe in a creator, take a hard look at why we're so much ahead of other species and how sometimes things just work out...
    If the choice you end up making is known by an omniscient being, then it means there can only be 1 outcome. It's the illusion of choice, as you think you have many possible choices, but in reality only 1 answer is correct. You are effectively "not allowed" to choose the outcome that is not known.

    Oh, and be sure to ask those 180 christians killed by Boko Haram in Nigeria how things "just worked out" for them.
    "If, after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl."

  5. #80
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there
    Posts
    1,620
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrbitalDawn View Post
    What do you mean with "spiritual evolution"? And where'd you come up with your idea of what this creator is, or isn't? Why do you think such a creator exists? How do you know he wants harmony in the cosmos?

    As I pointed out in a previous post, we cannot just "do what we want", our options are actually extremely limited, given all the hypothetical possibilities.

    It is also hypothetically possible for a creator to not be omnipotent. His only power could be to create, as in a once-off kind of thing. I'm not sure you realise what omnipotence entails...
    .
    Yes, of course there can be many creators. One set of creators creates planets, others create life on planets, and so on.
    From my understanding there is a Supreme Creator responsible for the creating the cosmos and keeping harmony.

    To answer your questions:
    1) Spiritual evolution means the more you evolve, the more you understand and learn about the Creator and your place in the universe.

    2) Through my understanding of what has been taught through the ages and my experience of it.
    3) Read point 2
    4) Existence is a collective experience of all things alive. You begin to see patterns and how things work. From those things you draw conclusions.

  6. #81
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there
    Posts
    1,620
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by copacetic View Post
    Interesting.

    Well, the bottom line is that you are inventing realities for which there is zero evidence.

    Which is fine, just not particularly useful in my view.
    Zero evidence in an existence used to studying matter. But scientists are catching up.

    They've discovered that the universe is holographic, they've recently discovered you can heal yourself through your thoughts. They're getting there albeit at snails pace.

    Things which the non matter universe have been revealing for ages.

  7. #82

    Default

    What a crock!
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sexual position - Bill Maher

  8. #83
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there
    Posts
    1,620
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    whatever

  9. #84
    King of the Hippies copacetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    49,270
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SEF View Post
    Zero evidence in an existence used to studying matter. But scientists are catching up.
    Catching up to what, exactly? You are presupposing realms for which there is simply no evidence, at all.

    They've discovered that the universe is holographic,
    You will have to expand on that, please.

    they've recently discovered you can heal yourself through your thoughts.
    This is not new, this has been common knowledge for just about as long as we've had medical science. It's obviously fairly limited though, we can't regrow lost limbs or anything. In any case, what does this have to do with spirituality?

    They're getting there albeit at snails pace.
    Again, getting where? You are inventing parts of reality, and then confidently asserting that science will get there eventually, but you've no reason whatsoever to presuppose these aspects of the universe in the first place.

    Things which the non matter universe have been revealing for ages.
    The non-matter universe? What on earth is that? If it's non-matter, how are we meant to detect, interact, or experience it?
    Behind every dark cloud lies the sun, waiting to boil you alive.

  10. #85

    Default

    SEF: 10 questions to put to your spiritual studies:

  11. #86

    Default

    Just slightly off topic, who here has read the Bhagavad Gita?

  12. #87
    Super Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    8,477

    Default

    David Icke couldn't make up the **** in this thread...

  13. #88
    Resident DJ DJ...'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Joziburg. Home Of Broadband Sloth Racing...
    Posts
    64,833
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfarer View Post
    http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...-and-free-will

    Reconciling Divine Decree with free will is one of the biggest challenges within the Abrahamic traditions. The explanation that I offer below is a very concise, extremely simplified version of the popular Islamic view, consistent with what is called the Ashari Creed
    The Ashari Creed is based on Ilm ul Kalaam, which (if memory serves correct [and I have avery limited knowledge of this]) was not applicable for centuries (I stand to be corrected on this one). However the principle remains, if I'm wrong. Also, it must be noted that the Ashari Creed is based on actual writings proven to have been written long after the currently accpeted doctrines of the muslim faith. Imams have spent centuries trying to tie the Ashari Creed into the official doctrines correctly but really come up short every single time...
    Internet the way it was meant to be. Launch details will become Crystal Clear very soon...

  14. #89

    Default

    Never mind the incompatibility of omniscience and free will. The fact that I was forced into having free will is a paradox in itself. If I were given the choice at the outset, I would've opted out of this silly idea, and sidestepped all the pesky landmines obstructing my path to everlasting bliss.

  15. #90
    Super Grandmaster
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Kent, UK
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    There is no such thing as free will. There is the illusion of free will. Fact is everyone is forced to make a choice by the circumstances they find themselves in.

    It is our very own desires which limit our free will and force us into a direction. We think because we chose the easy way we had free will to do so? Even people who supposedly take the hard choice, have taken a decision based on a thought process to determine the best choice for them. They just assessed the risks differently and maybe even got lucky.
    Ubuntu is an African term for "I can't configure Debian"

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 7 LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •