Facebook   Twitter    YouTube    RSS Feed    Android App    iPhone and iPad App     BlackBerry App    
Subscribe to Newsletter



Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 24 of 24

Thread: E-tolls could damage SA beyond repair - interdict applicants

  1. #16
    Damned Devill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Pretoria - 13% / Western Cape Town 87%
    Posts
    26,779

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzak View Post
    Apparently the law was changed which required them to ensure that an alternate route is in place before being allowed to toll a route. Very convenient.....
    I spy with my little eye too many fingers in too many pies.
    |Bebamos y divirtámonos que mañana moriremos.
    |Melior morior bellator, quam ago profugus.
    |Nemo saltat sobrius.

  2. #17
    Resident Lead Bender Ockie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Henceforth AKA OckieMoto :-)
    Posts
    30,787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzak View Post
    The other company will still be able to sue for losses incurred.
    Well that sucks. Even if it is uncovered that they were a part of the shady deal and gave bribes blah blah? Screw that. Aint there some kind of international court that could judge on something like this?
    Oh he is HOT! Does he have a gay brother? Or a straight brother that drinks a lot?

  3. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ocleroux View Post
    Well that sucks. Even if it is uncovered that they were a part of the shady deal and gave bribes blah blah? Screw that. Aint there some kind of international court that could judge on something like this?
    Yep, and nope This is the real cost of corruption.
    Only the ANC will try to deny that e-tolls cost them a ton of votes in Gauteng...

  4. #19
    Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bryanston
    Posts
    4,822

    Default

    Not really. If the whole deal is found to be corrupt by law, the other company that participated in the corrupt deal cannot claim their money back.
    i7 2600 | Asus P8H67-M (Rev B3) | Corsair TX650 | CM Scout | Mushkin Silverline BBR3 1333 -2X4GB | DeepCool Tiger Shark | 1TB Samsung | LG DVD-Writer

  5. #20
    Grandmaster Bern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Stellenbosch
    Posts
    2,300

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyzak View Post
    The other company will still be able to sue for losses incurred.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocleroux View Post
    Well that sucks. Even if it is uncovered that they were a part of the shady deal and gave bribes blah blah? Screw that. Aint there some kind of international court that could judge on something like this?
    They can try, but as soon as the investigations kick in on the European side those guys will shut their mouths quite quickly to try limit the potential fallout. EU laws and courts are a lot more serious than ours on corruption and the public there are not too fond of companies screwing Africa anymore. IF too much noise in made here I am sure some inquiries and investigative journalism will find plenty of other irregularities in other Kapsch deals...
    Attention City of Joburg and its employees, you do not have permission to view this webpage, you will be charged for your malicious hacking crimes

  6. #21
    Super Grandmaster Zenbaas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Location
    Posts
    12,098

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    They can try, but as soon as the investigations kick in on the European side those guys will shut their mouths quite quickly to try limit the potential fallout. EU laws and courts are a lot more serious than ours on corruption and the public there are not too fond of companies screwing Africa anymore. IF too much noise in made here I am sure some inquiries and investigative journalism will find plenty of other irregularities in other Kapsch deals...
    We can hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Albereth View Post
    I think a true test of humanity is if you can see a dog as your best friend rather than as lunch.

  7. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    They can try, but as soon as the investigations kick in on the European side those guys will shut their mouths quite quickly to try limit the potential fallout. EU laws and courts are a lot more serious than ours on corruption and the public there are not too fond of companies screwing Africa anymore. IF too much noise in made here I am sure some inquiries and investigative journalism will find plenty of other irregularities in other Kapsch deals...
    Just like the arms deal? How many years has it been now and which of those companies have had any significant repercussions?
    Only the ANC will try to deny that e-tolls cost them a ton of votes in Gauteng...

  8. #23

    Default

    SANRAL claims that there was no opposition in the early days of implementation about 4 years ago? I think that is a load of crock, maybe in Gauteng, but still hard to believe. Do you know there was huge opposition against SANRAL tolling the Garden Route from a few well organised Ratepayer Organisations and they won, as they knew in the long term it was going to cost more than it was worth as someone behind the scenes is getting a dividend when all that is needed is for the current levies on fuel that were intended to fix roads to be spent in that direction and be run by the Government that is tasked and paid to do so. Plus the roads that are in existence are already paid for so why toll them.
    SANRAL's planners were quite cagey with information along the Garden Route, so it would not surprise if the same thing happened in Gauteng.

    Another point everyone overlooks. Until you see the actual Toll Road in person and know what it costs how can you really make proper comment or an informed objection, as up until now our roads were not tolled and if you apply the reasonable man test it would be clear that the average man on the street had no inclination of what the costs were going to be to him, most people haven't even got the time of day to attend to their own matters than still wonder what Government/SANRAL are doing in the background.
    Also putting an advert in a newspaper in my opinion in this day and age does not constitute proper advertising and the laws should be amended to allow other media like the internet and email to be added to what constitutes proper advertising. How many people even read a newspaper any more, let alone the smalls section where all these notices would be placed. Even the Government Gazette, who reads it other than people that would have to read it, like Lawyers for instance. Not everyone is a Lawyer?

    The average man on the street is burdened with a huge volume of content that they cannot absorb in full. SANRAL obviously did go through what is required by law to advertise their agenda, but who is taking note of all that information prepared by Consultants with our tax money, or know the implications of what it will imply to them without having the means to have it explained to them by other Consultants that do not work for SANRAL and who would pay for such people, not SANRAL nor the Government. They (SANRAL) would be quick on the mark to say we (the public) are too late, maybe even imply we are stupid not to have read the paper on some day it was advertised or whatever medium they used to advertise or even ignorance of the law is no excuse.
    It is simply too much information to take in. Over the last decade the Public has been saddled with new Drivers Licences, new Gun Licences, added taxes and unforeseen new costs like higher petrol and electricity prices, people are stressed with inadequate incomes to match, SANRAL/Government have pushed the envelope, the man on the street is at his tipping/breaking point and ignorance of the law is an excuse, especially if it is a new one.

    What's next?
    Last edited by BTTB; 26-04-2012 at 03:56 PM.
    You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.
    Quote Originally Posted by bekdik View Post
    Expecting a corporate to do something out of a spirit of goodwill is about as efective as expecting to win a lottery without purchasing a ticket. It ain't gonna happen!

  9. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Pretoria East
    Posts
    101
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hear Hear
    Quote Originally Posted by BTTB View Post
    SANRAL claims that there was no opposition in the early days of implementation about 4 years ago? I think that is a load of crock, maybe in Gauteng, but still hard to believe. Do you know there was huge opposition against SANRAL tolling the Garden Route from a few well organised Ratepayer Organisations and they won, as they knew in the long term it was going to cost more than it was worth as someone behind the scenes is getting a dividend when all that is needed is for the current levies on fuel that were intended to fix roads to be spent in that direction and be run by the Government that is tasked and paid to do so. Plus the roads that are in existence are already paid for so why toll them.
    SANRAL's planners were quite cagey with information along the Garden Route, so it would not surprise if the same thing happened in Gauteng.

    Another point everyone overlooks. Until you see the actual Toll Road in person and know what it costs how can you really make proper comment or an informed objection, as up until now our roads were not tolled and if you apply the reasonable man test it would be clear that the average man on the street had no inclination of what the costs were going to be to him, most people haven't even got the time of day to attend to their own matters than still wonder what Government/SANRAL are doing in the background.
    Also putting an advert in a newspaper in my opinion in this day and age does not constitute proper advertising and the laws should be amended to allow other media like the internet and email to be added to what constitutes proper advertising. How many people even read a newspaper any more, let alone the smalls section where all these notices would be placed. Even the Government Gazette, who reads it other than people that would have to read it, like Lawyers for instance. Not everyone is a Lawyer?

    The average man on the street is burdened with a huge volume of content that they cannot absorb in full. SANRAL obviously did go through what is required by law to advertise their agenda, but who is taking note of all that information prepared by Consultants with our tax money, or know the implications of what it will imply to them without having the means to have it explained to them by other Consultants that do not work for SANRAL and who would pay for such people, not SANRAL nor the Government. They (SANRAL) would be quick on the mark to say we (the public) are too late, maybe even imply we are stupid not to have read the paper on some day it was advertised or whatever medium they used to advertise or even ignorance of the law is no excuse.
    It is simply too much information to take in. Over the last decade the Public has been saddled with new Drivers Licences, new Gun Licences, added taxes and unforeseen new costs like higher petrol and electricity prices, people are stressed with inadequate incomes to match, SANRAL/Government have pushed the envelope, the man on the street is at his tipping/breaking point and ignorance of the law is an excuse, especially if it is a new one.

    What's next?

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •