E-tolls could damage SA beyond repair - interdict applicants

[Devill]

Apparently the law was changed which required them to ensure that an alternate route is in place before being allowed to toll a route. Very convenient.....

I spy with my little eye too many fingers in too many pies.

[Ockie]

The other company will still be able to sue for losses incurred.

Well that sucks. Even if it is uncovered that they were a part of the shady deal and gave bribes blah blah? Screw that. Aint there some kind of international court that could judge on something like this?

[Wyzak]

Well that sucks. Even if it is uncovered that they were a part of the shady deal and gave bribes blah blah? Screw that. Aint there some kind of international court that could judge on something like this?

Yep, and nope This is the real cost of corruption.

[Fuma]

Not really. If the whole deal is found to be corrupt by law, the other company that participated in the corrupt deal cannot claim their money back.

[Bern]

The other company will still be able to sue for losses incurred.

Well that sucks. Even if it is uncovered that they were a part of the shady deal and gave bribes blah blah? Screw that. Aint there some kind of international court that could judge on something like this?

They can try, but as soon as the investigations kick in on the European side those guys will shut their mouths quite quickly to try limit the potential fallout. EU laws and courts are a lot more serious than ours on corruption and the public there are not too fond of companies screwing Africa anymore. IF too much noise in made here I am sure some inquiries and investigative journalism will find plenty of other irregularities in other Kapsch deals...

[Zenbaas]

They can try, but as soon as the investigations kick in on the European side those guys will shut their mouths quite quickly to try limit the potential fallout. EU laws and courts are a lot more serious than ours on corruption and the public there are not too fond of companies screwing Africa anymore. IF too much noise in made here I am sure some inquiries and investigative journalism will find plenty of other irregularities in other Kapsch deals...

We can hope.

[Wyzak]

They can try, but as soon as the investigations kick in on the European side those guys will shut their mouths quite quickly to try limit the potential fallout. EU laws and courts are a lot more serious than ours on corruption and the public there are not too fond of companies screwing Africa anymore. IF too much noise in made here I am sure some inquiries and investigative journalism will find plenty of other irregularities in other Kapsch deals...

Just like the arms deal? How many years has it been now and which of those companies have had any significant repercussions?

[BTTB]

SANRAL claims that there was no opposition in the early days of implementation about 4 years ago? I think that is a load of crock, maybe in Gauteng, but still hard to believe. Do you know there was huge opposition against SANRAL tolling the Garden Route from a few well organised Ratepayer Organisations and they won, as they knew in the long term it was going to cost more than it was worth as someone behind the scenes is getting a dividend when all that is needed is for the current levies on fuel that were intended to fix roads to be spent in that direction and be run by the Government that is tasked and paid to do so. Plus the roads that are in existence are already paid for so why toll them.
SANRAL's planners were quite cagey with information along the Garden Route, so it would not surprise if the same thing happened in Gauteng.

Another point everyone overlooks. Until you see the actual Toll Road in person and know what it costs how can you really make proper comment or an informed objection, as up until now our roads were not tolled and if you apply the reasonable man test it would be clear that the average man on the street had no inclination of what the costs were going to be to him, most people haven't even got the time of day to attend to their own matters than still wonder what Government/SANRAL are doing in the background.
Also putting an advert in a newspaper in my opinion in this day and age does not constitute proper advertising and the laws should be amended to allow other media like the internet and email to be added to what constitutes proper advertising. How many people even read a newspaper any more, let alone the smalls section where all these notices would be placed. Even the Government Gazette, who reads it other than people that would have to read it, like Lawyers for instance. Not everyone is a Lawyer?

The average man on the street is burdened with a huge volume of content that they cannot absorb in full. SANRAL obviously did go through what is required by law to advertise their agenda, but who is taking note of all that information prepared by Consultants with our tax money, or know the implications of what it will imply to them without having the means to have it explained to them by other Consultants that do not work for SANRAL and who would pay for such people, not SANRAL nor the Government. They (SANRAL) would be quick on the mark to say we (the public) are too late, maybe even imply we are stupid not to have read the paper on some day it was advertised or whatever medium they used to advertise or even ignorance of the law is no excuse.
It is simply too much information to take in. Over the last decade the Public has been saddled with new Drivers Licences, new Gun Licences, added taxes and unforeseen new costs like higher petrol and electricity prices, people are stressed with inadequate incomes to match, SANRAL/Government have pushed the envelope, the man on the street is at his tipping/breaking point and ignorance of the law is an excuse, especially if it is a new one.

What's next?

[EGT]

Hear Hear

SANRAL claims that there was no opposition in the early days of implementation about 4 years ago? I think that is a load of crock, maybe in Gauteng, but still hard to believe. Do you know there was huge opposition against SANRAL tolling the Garden Route from a few well organised Ratepayer Organisations and they won, as they knew in the long term it was going to cost more than it was worth as someone behind the scenes is getting a dividend when all that is needed is for the current levies on fuel that were intended to fix roads to be spent in that direction and be run by the Government that is tasked and paid to do so. Plus the roads that are in existence are already paid for so why toll them.
SANRAL's planners were quite cagey with information along the Garden Route, so it would not surprise if the same thing happened in Gauteng.

Another point everyone overlooks. Until you see the actual Toll Road in person and know what it costs how can you really make proper comment or an informed objection, as up until now our roads were not tolled and if you apply the reasonable man test it would be clear that the average man on the street had no inclination of what the costs were going to be to him, most people haven't even got the time of day to attend to their own matters than still wonder what Government/SANRAL are doing in the background.
Also putting an advert in a newspaper in my opinion in this day and age does not constitute proper advertising and the laws should be amended to allow other media like the internet and email to be added to what constitutes proper advertising. How many people even read a newspaper any more, let alone the smalls section where all these notices would be placed. Even the Government Gazette, who reads it other than people that would have to read it, like Lawyers for instance. Not everyone is a Lawyer?

The average man on the street is burdened with a huge volume of content that they cannot absorb in full. SANRAL obviously did go through what is required by law to advertise their agenda, but who is taking note of all that information prepared by Consultants with our tax money, or know the implications of what it will imply to them without having the means to have it explained to them by other Consultants that do not work for SANRAL and who would pay for such people, not SANRAL nor the Government. They (SANRAL) would be quick on the mark to say we (the public) are too late, maybe even imply we are stupid not to have read the paper on some day it was advertised or whatever medium they used to advertise or even ignorance of the law is no excuse.
It is simply too much information to take in. Over the last decade the Public has been saddled with new Drivers Licences, new Gun Licences, added taxes and unforeseen new costs like higher petrol and electricity prices, people are stressed with inadequate incomes to match, SANRAL/Government have pushed the envelope, the man on the street is at his tipping/breaking point and ignorance of the law is an excuse, especially if it is a new one.

What's next?