Poachers are attracted by the big money.... when we flood the market the big money will go.I think in the short term it will help with rhino poaching but what will the poachers be poaching instead? elephant?
Poachers are attracted by the big money.... when we flood the market the big money will go.I think in the short term it will help with rhino poaching but what will the poachers be poaching instead? elephant?
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." ~ Christopher Hitchens
We need to flood the market with everything we can and hope these poachers don't steal abalone or something else on the side.Originally Posted by Nerfherder
The poachers will still exist, have the equipment and have a need to eat, what will they do instead of poaching Rhino?
Oh right, sorry my bad, not Asians, Chinese and Vietnamese people are stupid and dumb. Gotchya
Also, my post didn't refer to farming at all but the sales of already stockpiled rhino horns. You can't deny that selling our 20 tonnes will curve poaching.
But lets tackle your argument. Governments give out these things called subsidies. They would take care of things like start up costs for the farmers or their tranquilers to make it easier for farmers to farm rhinos. The income they get is taxed wich gives the country revenue for further subsidies or .... education, infrastructure development, etc
I'll tell you right now how stupid of an idea this is. Once again your failure to grasp economics. Supply is independent of demand they same way demand is independent of supply.
By destroying rhino horns you decrease the supply, making it more expensive. That only gives poachers more of an incentive to poach, what happens, more rhinos are killed.
So you suggest finding every single rhino we have and "dehorning them" when in the previous post you were against the same thing (farming). Why so contradictory?
If we were made from dirt, why is there still dirt?
And not only Vietnamese and Chinese have the capability to be idiots.
I have not contradicted myself one little bit but why would someone with a tenuous grasp, at best, on reality get that?
No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood
Yeah you did. You are against rhino farming because of the costs involved in dehorning saying that it's cheaper to poach but you would rather go ahead and find every single single rhino to dehorn anyways.
Regardless of farming, you agree that selling the stockpile is a good idea?
Nope - I don't. The 'stockpiles' should be destroyed. As too should the horns taken from dehorned rhinos.
If you must sell the horns (and here I assume to people who want them as some bizarre trophy) then poison them.
And by the way, saying that I am against farming but suggesting that rhinos should be dehorned are not contradictory.
No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood
You understand that by destroying rhino horns it makes it more attractive to paochers to poach?
Simple yes or no.
If we were made from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Why it would be much better to take all living rhinos out today. Sell of the remaining horns and be done.End it.
Because we could actually have a chance to save the rhino I would?
On what moral grounds would you kill every single rhino? And let's say we did kill every single rhino in SA, you just made the poaching problem much worse in countries that didn't decide to eradicate all their rhino's.
Less Rhinos = More Expensive Rhino horns = Poachers making more money = more poaching
If we were made from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Not in the least. Criminals always want the easy option and having a 'legal' trade means that you can piggyback your 'illegal' horns into exports.
We have legal trade in DVDs yet we still manage to get illegal DVDs for sale. The end consumer doesn't really care where it came from other than that he is getting a bargain.
Why should a poacher be bothered with setting up a rhino farm when he can just as easily shoot one?
Assuming your view that releasing 20 tonnes will make rhino horn cheaper - what happens when it runs out? Being cheaper will probably mean a greater consumer base. There is never a shortage of idiots. Rhino killing will be back and in spades.
No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood
Poachers probably make very little relative to the price the horn goes for.
I do agree that there is no moral ground for wiping out the rhino. Far better to wipe out the Vietnamese and Chinese idiots.
No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood
You fail to grasp the situation.
1. Legal trade means that you can buy from a licensed and legal source. Poachers don't simply kill a rhino and rock up to a Chinese client who will risk getting caught when the Chinese clients can get it from a legal source risk free.
2. There is no substitute for fake rhino horns in the same way authentic DVD's are not the same as pirated DVD's
3. The government can set up people to farm rhino's and these people don't have to be poachers, where did you get this idea from? And why would a poacher kill a rhino and risk death/prison when he can legally acquire rhino horns (hence no more poachers)
4. It's no assumption. Economics 101. Since its cheaper poachers have no incentive to poach
5. FARMING
6. Economics 101. Demand is independent from supply so consumer bases won't grow. Because rhino horns are cheaper doesn't mean I want to buy it, doesn't make you want to buy it, doesn't make anyone want to buy it. The only people who buy it will buy it.
If we were made from dirt, why is there still dirt?
1. What legal source? They don't exist. And they don't appear overnight except in economics lala land.
2. Who cares whether it is a substitute? Would diamonds have made more sense to you? The trade in diamonds is legal yet there are blood diamonds. What do you want? Blood horns?
3. The government can't even set up chicken farms.
4. It very much is an assumption. Common sense 101.
5. See point 3 above. And rhinos are a little trickier than chickens.
6. You are contradicting your whole notion of the supposed 20 tonnes of horn. If the demand won't grow then the release of more horn will have no impact. Every one has enough. But wait. More rhino are being killed. That can't be right.
No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood
"Calculus is hard and it doesn't make sense to me so it must not be true."
That's honestly the best way I can describe your understanding on economics. Ignore that scholarly people are actually calling for legalisation and farming and because they actually understand the situation.
I'm done trying to explain the facts. I'm just going to lay it out there.
Releasing the 20 tonnes will curb poaching. Legalising will be a disincentive for poachers.
If we were made from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Don't beat yourself up on the calculus issue - it appears that there is much, much more than just that that makes no sense to you. Why limit yourself?
And I appreciate that you are done with your version of the 'facts' but perhaps you'd like to ask a 'scholarly' person why there is still livestock theft? Or, indeed, theft of just about anything? Car ownership is legal yet people are still being hijacked.
No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood
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