How does this work Mweb and FNB

[TSpeed]

Thanks for the response. Loaded wireshark and saw that the RTP packets are routed through the Voip provider servers, hence the charge of the call.

Just for interest sake, i did a calculation what the actual cost is to terminate a call.
Say the Provider pays R30.00 per Gig, it works out to +- R0.03 per meg.To terminate a call uses +- 6000 bytes.
With 1 Meg you can terminate +- 170 calls which works out to R0.00018 per call. With 1Gig they can terminate 174080 calls.
This does not include the RTP portion, only to terminate the call.

[mo_to]

Thanks for the response. Loaded wireshark and saw that the RTP packets are routed through the Voip provider servers, hence the charge of the call.

Just for interest sake, i did a calculation what the actual cost is to terminate a call.
Say the Provider pays R30.00 per Gig, it works out to +- R0.03 per meg.To terminate a call uses +- 6000 bytes.
With 1 Meg you can terminate +- 170 calls which works out to R0.00018 per call. With 1Gig they can terminate 174080 calls.
This does not include the RTP portion, only to terminate the call.

It does not cost only bandwidth charges to terminate a carrier grade call. What about the ROI on the equipment, salaries of highly qualified engineers to maintain the network, and the inter-connect providers fee to terminate the call are just some of the hundreds of costs to factor into the delivery cost of a call.

The end user just gets delivered a working solution, but the engine contains many gears, pulleys and needs to remain well oiled

[TSpeed]

Thanks mo_to, i knew the voip providers were going to attack me. Let's talk about Return on Investment as you specified above. Say to terminate a call you make R0.20 , times that by the number of calls you can terminate with 1Gig at a cost of R30.00

No of calls terminated with 1Gig = 174080
Termination charge (estimate) = R0.20
Total charged per Gig = R34816

Less cost per Gig =R30.00
Profit per Gig =R34786

Not bad return on investment i would say, now times the gigs by say only 100XR34786 = R 3,478,600.00

[mo_to]

Thanks mo_to, i knew the voip providers were going to attack me.

No attack, just explaining a little on how it works. To explain in full, we'll need to meet for 10 000 hours as thats probably the skill and knowledge needed to run a very small carrier VoIP network.

Not bad return on investment i would say, now times the gigs by say only 100XR34786 = R 3,478,600.00

Let's all become telecom service providers and join the elite group of Vodafone, Carlos Slim and Alliance group
I'm sure we all have the minimum 10 000 hours and $1m venture capital

[TSpeed]

No lecture required from you mo_to, if you have ever written a sip server, sip gateway server,sip presence server, sip client, email server or web server, and you have a problem, contact us and maybe we will write a solution for you. We don't make use of third party software.

[mo_to]

Have an mweb talk account and Fnb connect account, made a call from fnb to mweb which is a voip call and got charged for it, did the same from mweb to fnb connect, and same result, got charged. How does this
work as the calls i made were both internet calls. Anybody please explain why are they charging for internet calls.

No lecture. You asked for information on this public forum, and I input what I know about inter-connect which should answer your question..

Great that you write your own VoIP solution.

I'm glad that I could help in explaining inter-connection as per your initial post.

BTW. We're not a software programming company (you seem to be, which surprises me more wrt to your initial question), although we do sub-contract much of our work out to contractors like you. We don't believe in re-inventing the wheel. If there is a proven, tried and tested solution out there, and it's Class 5 Carrier Grade and used by other major carriers, we will consider it. We offer our clients a stable working solution, not one where we need to fix bugs. Telkom and Vodacom does not manufacture their own exchanges but contract out good and responsible companies who does...this is the difference between a 'bona-fide' carrier and a 'shoemaker' carrier.

Nevertheless, that's off topic from your thread heading, and we can debate that on another thread or forum

[TSpeed]

If you understand the inner workings of voip, you should have picked up that there was actaully a hidden message in my original question. "Why are they charging for an internet call" In a later post i said that i found the reason why they are charging, because they are routing the conversation through their servers, which actually defeats the purpose of P2P comms. We as users are being ripped off. To explain this concept to you would most probably take 10000 years and not 10000 hours. We found so many problems with your "bona-fide" carrier, thus the reason we designed our own software.

It's people like us that make it possible for people like you to have the freedom of choice. I am sorry that i posted the thread here, should have directed it to the software thread. I am out of here, it feels like i am talking to a wall.

[mo_to]

TSpeed, I've sent you a PM ...

[georgegolding]

It is not always as simple as it may appear....

There are many phone networks growing in South Africa (Vox, MWEB, FNB, Euphoria, ECN, MTN, Vodacom, Cell C, 8TA, Skytel, Freetel, Telfree, Dow Networks, Switchtel and the list goes on. When you make a call from lets say an MWEB VoIP account, you need to be able to terminate the call on any network in the world local or foreign. Mweb, FNB and the like will most likely only have interconnect agreements with the major players it passes traffic to such as Vodacom. MTN and Telkom and an International carrier, which means it can terminate calls directly on any of these networks.

The amount of calls MWEB will be terminating on the FNB network will be almost 0% of their voip traffic. The result is it will make no sense for them to have a direct interconnect to FNB as it is too costly to manage for such a small amount of traffic/minutes.

The result is they transit the traffic through the Telkom network to get to the FNB network and Telkom will charge them a transit fee and they charge you in return.

Once the volume of calls increases on VoIP networks the major VoIP networks will begin to connect directly to each other, this Telkom Transit fee will disappear and the cost of calling VoiP network to VoIP network will be reduced dramatically, probably by up to 75%.

So keep using VoIP get your friends to use VoIP and in time Telkom will be cut out of the occasion on the PSTN side of things and costs will be reduced dramatically.

P2P comms.
These networks are not providing P2P comms, for this you can use Skype. But it must be Skype to Skype, if you use Skype to call an Mweb or FNB number Skype will charge you, and quite a bit as they too will most likely use Telkom as the transit carrier to reach the MWeb, FNB network. P2P comms have no set routes or dedicated networks, there is no quality control, it is a random hit and miss if your call quality will be acceptable or not.

George

[Roman4604]

The result is it will make no sense for them to have a direct interconnect to FNB as it is too costly to manage for such a small amount of traffic/minutes.

Actually costs very little with VoIP, the major SPs are all IP interconnected at the INXs, so its just some additional config on their respective soft switches & session border controllers.

It would make absolutely no sense for them to incur the expense of transiting the voice traffic through Telkom (TDM).

[Logo]

If you understand the inner workings of voip, you should have picked up that there was actaully a hidden message in my original question. "Why are they charging for an internet call" In a later post i said that i found the reason why they are charging, because they are routing the conversation through their servers, which actually defeats the purpose of P2P comms. We as users are being ripped off. To explain this concept to you would most probably take 10000 years and not 10000 hours. We found so many problems with your "bona-fide" carrier, thus the reason we designed our own software.

It's people like us that make it possible for people like you to have the freedom of choice. I am sorry that i posted the thread here, should have directed it to the software thread. I am out of here, it feels like i am talking to a wall.

No enterprise grade VOIP service out there is direct P2P SIP communication. They all go through their respective servers whatever it is that they are using.

Do you want a DID number accessible from Telkom analogue lines ? Who registers the DID number. In a business model, where it is direct P2P where exactly will the break out points be, who decides on the interconnect fees, how do they recharge if it is a direct P2P. What about security ? Who controls connection of new services, disconnection of old services or suspension due to non-payment. Who registers your phone on the network. Who manages your phone configuration so that it has the correct network details and SIP connections. All this costs money and then add on top of that the hardware costs, the infrastructure costs, the redundant infrastructure costs, the cost of physical of DCs. The salaries that you need to pay.

Both FNB and Mweb provide enterprise grade VoIP services not a simple P2P network that is open for sabotage with the frailest of security.

And before you do mention Skype. They don't use SIP. They charge for all off network calls, they charge for a DID number etc.