Earth doesn't need humans, it will do just fine without any human beings.

[Lycanthrope]

So Carlin & Co prefer an earth without people? Such a low regard for human life can only come from a projected self-loathing which is the inevitable consequence of a pathological narcissism. Actually, the world will do just fine without George Carlin, maybe even improve a little.

How do you link self-loathing with pathological narcissism, exactly? I hope you will share your educated deduction with us all.

[Arthur]

It'll take an essay to explain, which I know no-one will read.

Basically, the transgressive potty-mouthed entertainment he peddled is a cheap counterfeit for creativity. That a (putative) adult could make a living and gain popularity by a systematic dismantling of all almost all the values that distinguish humans from the beasts is a tragic personal failure, and also a marker for decline in the wider culture. Fox TV for years bankrolled his shows, which is no surprise as it also caters for vulgar hicks who love tabloid TV.

The biting social commentary in some of his skits is by no means original. But it's his later nascent anti-human environmentalism that is perhaps most revealing of his sad, twisted soul. Instead of working to edify by supporting that which is noble in human nature (and mocking that which subversive) he did the opposite, and became a grumpy old man who couldn't say anything nice about anyone other than his venal and personally corrupt political and celebrity pals. Very sad.

[Ekstasis]

It'll take an essay to explain, which I know no-one will read.

Basically, the transgressive potty-mouthed entertainment he peddled is a cheap counterfeit for creativity. That a (putative) adult could make a living and gain popularity by a systematic dismantling of all almost all the values that distinguish humans from the beasts is a tragic personal failure, and also a marker for decline in the wider culture. Fox TV for years bankrolled his shows, which is no surprise as it also caters for vulgar hicks who love tabloid TV.

The biting social commentary in some of his skits is by no means original. But it's his later nascent anti-human environmentalism that is perhaps most revealing of his sad, twisted soul. Instead of working to edify by supporting that which is noble in human nature (and mocking that which subversive) he did the opposite, and became a grumpy old man who couldn't say anything nice about anyone other than his venal and personally corrupt political and celebrity pals. Very sad.

Erm....how much of human intent is actually 'noble'?

[Arthur]

Erm....how much of human intent is actually 'noble'?

My own view: in most ordinary people, there is much more nobility and goodness than our sick culture can see. We're being trained daily by our entertainments to see only the ugly side. The pervasive celeb/entertainment culture flattens the world to either feckless superstar fame/notoriety at one pole, or boring boorishness on the other. Everything in between is evacuated through incessant scorn and mockery. It deconstructs every human motive and action into self-interest, exploitation, and crass materialism. With a vulgar tongue it promotes cynicism about anything and everything truly human.

Just take the image of manhood and fatherhood as portrayed b these people: dads are either wimpish, bumbling idiots who can't hold a decent conversation about anything remotely serious like "feelings", or they're violent, abusive, and heartless monsters, or unrealistic fantasy-superheroes. In the real world, millions upon of millions of men and dads work away day in day out supporting their families, faithful to their wives, loving to their children, providing care and protection. Not perfect, but always striving harder to be more, give more, serve more. These are real heroes, but they are either ignored or mocked. There is a radical disconnect between the media dad and the real dad - and more and people find the media one convincing, because that's what fills our media diet.

There are countless other examples.

In the meantime, these celeb vulgarians promote their cynicism and spread their acid, instantly pouncing on and making a laughing stock of everything and anything that makes life worthwhile. As they see the world, the only human motivations are lust and greed - and they project that onto everyone else, dragging the whole public square down to the toilet in which they live. And we wonder why TV is a sewer, why our schools are falling apart, why families are failing, and why the world's such a mess.

These same people constantly promote the absurd idea that everything's relative, that there are no such things as real values, no such thing as objective morality, that good and bad are anything you want it them to be, that human nature is an infinitely variable plastic that can be and do anything with impunity. Just see how many people today (on this forum) seriously cannot tell the difference between right and wrong, or even wonder whether there are such things - they earnestly believe truth and goodness and beauty and justice are mere human constructs and therefore infinitely variable and therefore dispensable, just a cover for power. I have been there myself. So sad. So sad.

[porchrat]

Surely you aren't suggesting that most people get their worldview from popular media. That stuff is entertainment. Maybe a small window onto the world in terms of economics and politics with respect to news shows but beyond that none of it accurately reflects the average human being's life. Makes perfect sense considering the average life, our life, is not something we want to watch on TV. It isn't entertaining, it isn't different.

I can't accept that most folks walk around thinking that families and events shown on TV or in newspapers or whatever represent the majority of people on the planet. Sure there might be some people, but not most.

[Arthur]

Surely you aren't suggesting that most people get their worldview from popular media. That stuff is entertainment. Maybe a small window onto the world in terms of economics and politics with respect to news shows but beyond that none of it accurately reflects the average human being's life. Makes perfect sense considering the average life, our life, is not something we want to watch on TV. It isn't entertaining, it isn't different.

I can't accept that most folks walk around thinking that families and events shown on TV or in newspapers or whatever represent the majority of people on the planet. Sure there might be some people, but not most.

Well, it's kinda both. It used to be true that most people are developed enough to distinguish between mere entertainments and the real world. There used to be enough non-media and non-entertainment cultural transmitters to help people make the distinction. But those non-media cultural transmitters have collapsed in the past few decades. As our entertainments try to get more realistic, the confusion increases and lines begin to blur.

If you want evidence, just look at what 40 years of movies and TV shows has done to most people's view of their government and government conspiracies. There are millions of people who sincerely believe the moonshots were faked, or that 911 was an inside job, or that UFOs are being covered up. They think most Americans are crass, foul-mouthed freeloaders who couldn't work an honest day if they tried, because that's all they see in their entertainments.

My own experience is that - scratch a little - more and more people are unable to clearly distinguish the real world from the media-entertainment world. This is having a disastrous effect on real-world relationships, families, society and politics.

[porchrat]

Well, it's kinda both. It used to be true that most people are developed enough to distinguish between mere entertainments and the real world. There used to be enough non-media and non-entertainment cultural transmitters to help people make the distinction. But those non-media cultural transmitters have collapsed in the past few decades. As our entertainments try to get more realistic, the confusion increases and lines begin to blur.

If you want evidence, just look at what 40 years of movies and TV shows has done to most people's view of their government and government conspiracies. There are millions of people who sincerely believe the moonshots were faked, or that 911 was an inside job, or that UFOs are being covered up. They think most Americans are crass, foul-mouthed freeloaders who couldn't work an honest day if they tried, because that's all they see in their entertainments.

My own experience is that - scratch a little - more and more people are unable to clearly distinguish the real world from the media-entertainment world. This is having a disastrous effect on real-world relationships, families, society and politics.

With all due respect "millions" is a drop in an ocean. If it ever reaches "billions" then I will concede that there is a problem. There will always be crazies that can't distinguish reality from crazed baseless fantasy. Those crazies just have a way to be more vocal now with the establishment of the Internet.

The rise in anti-science does concern me though. More than ever it is important that children get a good grounding in science. It is a subject that in my experience greatly improves the average human being's bullschit filters.

[Arthur]

With all due respect "millions" is a drop in an ocean. If it ever reaches "billions" then I will concede that there is a problem. There will always be crazies that can't distinguish reality from crazed baseless fantasy. Those crazies just have a way to be more vocal now with the establishment of the Internet.

The rise in anti-science does concern me though. More than ever it is important that children get a good grounding in science. It is a subject that in my experience greatly improves the average human being's bullschit filters.

I used 'millions' as shorthand for "many", whatever the real number is, so a millions vs billions quibble isn't the point. It might well be billions for all we know -- the real point is that more and more are becoming confused.

I quite agree about education in science. Well said. To that I would add an education in philosophy, history, and music -- these are essential preparations for mathematics and the sciences.

[Elimentals]

I used 'millions' as shorthand for "many", whatever the real number is, so a millions vs billions quibble isn't the point. It might well be billions for all we know -- the real point is that more and more are becoming confused.

I quite agree about education in science. Well said. To that I would add an education in philosophy, history, and music -- these are essential preparations for mathematics and the sciences.

Can agree with philosophy just as long as they don't tie it to some ancient myth to call it fact.

[porchrat]

I used 'millions' as shorthand for "many", whatever the real number is, so a millions vs billions quibble isn't the point. It might well be billions for all we know -- the real point is that more and more are becoming confused.

OK I think I can accept that. The Internet facilitates the spread of crazy quite effectively. It is difficult for those not used to checking on references to see the wood for the trees when it comes to reading stuff on the Internet. Heck even those that are used to it can fall prey to crazy so those untrained have little hope.

Still I can't accept that the average person regards what they see on their gogglebox as an accurate representation of the world outside. I can't accept that people are that gullible. Some certainly, but the majority... I doubt it.


I quite agree about education in science. Well said. To that I would add an education in philosophy, history, and music -- these are essential preparations for mathematics and the sciences.[/QUOTE]
Sure but there is only so much you can load onto kids before school becomes an insurmountable mountain for the average student. Maybe when I was a youngster my school let us screw around with instruments. I took part in the choir and I happen to play a musical instrument in my personal capacity. My experience of philosophy is little to none. Science just seems like a way to put in 20% of the effort and get 80% of the result.

[SaiyanZ]

Well, it's kinda both. It used to be true that most people are developed enough to distinguish between mere entertainments and the real world. There used to be enough non-media and non-entertainment cultural transmitters to help people make the distinction. But those non-media cultural transmitters have collapsed in the past few decades. As our entertainments try to get more realistic, the confusion increases and lines begin to blur.

If you want evidence, just look at what 40 years of movies and TV shows has done to most people's view of their government and government conspiracies. There are millions of people who sincerely believe the moonshots were faked, or that 911 was an inside job, or that UFOs are being covered up. They think most Americans are crass, foul-mouthed freeloaders who couldn't work an honest day if they tried, because that's all they see in their entertainments.My own experience is that - scratch a little - more and more people are unable to clearly distinguish the real world from the media-entertainment world. This is having a disastrous effect on real-world relationships, families, society and politics.

You have a lot to say about what is fake and what is true. Yet you bind yourself to words in a book written by people a few thousand years ago and have devoted your life to an invisible being. You shouldn't call out things that other people believe true as fake if you don't want the same done to you.

[agerbon]

George Carlin was a man that served up some painful truths, by pointing out the contradictions, and the troubling dilemmas of the human condition, and then poked at it with comedy.

I think he did one hell of a job.

[unskinnybob]

You have a lot to say about what is fake and what is true. Yet you bind yourself to words in a book written by people a few thousand years ago and have devoted your life to an invisible being. You shouldn't call out things that other people believe true as fake if you don't want the same done to you.

Ouch!

Looking at the atrocities George W got away with during his stint as President, I'll forever have that little spark of a suspicion about 911. No need for tinfoil hats though.