Original Sin

[eehellfire]

Is that not what we doing here, looking at the detail?

We look at the detail, it gives us one view. We then look at philosophy and that gives us another.

But to bring the two together we have to assume certain function's while we ignore others. Its like bringing a hammer to a puzzle to make the pieces fit.

I do agree on your second view re: if you purely following your religion just for salvation, you doing it wrong. Its like returning a wallet to get a reward of some kind instead of doing it because you want to be/are a good person.



Re: Jews view on this go look up Alphabet of Ben Sira and Lilith

Er... wouldn't you just go look in the Old Testament for the Jewish view?

[rwenzori]

Here's the essence:

My god! People actually believe all that crap?

[falcon786]

Re: Jews view on this go look up Alphabet of Ben Sira and Lilith

I see,yeah Islam doesn't prescribe to that either,its in things like this where i personally feel Islam makes more sense.

I think of it as the story "My broer se kraai" where God could obviously let us go to heaven or hell if he wanted but he gave us free will as a test.Now in which test have you been given the answers in plain sight?

[Elimentals]

Er... wouldn't you just go look in the Old Testament for the Jewish view?

Some of the books differ as well as some translations differ to the Christian bible also does not cover the folklore, like why the men wear inscribed amulets before circumcision.

[RazedInBlack]

I see,yeah Islam doesn't prescribe to that either,its in things like this where i personally feel Islam makes more sense.

In which way? Don't be fooled, islam is like most religions . . . illogical and irrational. Plain and simple!

[Elimentals]

I see,yeah Islam doesn't prescribe to that either,its in things like this where i personally feel Islam makes more sense.

I think of it as the story "My broer se kraai" where God could obviously let us go to heaven or hell if he wanted but he gave us free will as a test.Now in which test have you been given the answers in plain sight?

But that is exactly my problem. I know many don't see it this why but for me if the religion was true it would not need to be reworked to fit a certain view does not matter how much sense it makes its no longer the original.

Simply put if god was timeless as everyone claims why is his word not? Why all the translations and omissions.

[buyeye]

The orginal sin:

Man voluntarily followed satan and disobeyed God , so satan's power is only relative to how gullable humans are "do this and you will surely be like the creator" .That was very gullable , the first humans should had more critical thinking like how so many atheists claim to have. Like how does the contraption that makes us like God work?

Moving on so God made a plan to forgive humans , done.

But humans voluntarily followed satan so they must voluntarily follow God , this does not make God weak but JUST.

[buyeye]

But that is exactly my problem. I know many don't see it this why but for me if the religion was true it would not need to be reworked to fit a certain view does not matter how much sense it makes its no longer the original.

Simply put if god was timeless as everyone claims why is his word not? Why all the translations and omissions.

Sorry I caught this thread so late.

The problem is that there have always been greedy men that have altered the scritpures to suit their greed , now when honest people say but this doesn't make sense people think they also want alter it for greed.

[RazedInBlack]

Like how does the contraption that makes us like God work?)

Explain this contraption. I've yet to come across it let alone use it!

[porchrat]

The orginal sin:

Man voluntarily followed satan and disobeyed God , so satan's power is only relative to how gullable humans are "do this and you will surely be like the creator" .That was very gullable , the first humans should had more critical thinking like how so many atheists claim to have. Like how does the contraption that makes us like God work?

You are blaming Adam and Eve for being gullible? For not being able to see through a lie (or at least a twisting of the truth) BEFORE they had consumed fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Really?... Seriously? You don't see the flaw in that argument here?

Moving on so God made a plan to forgive humans , done.

A really convoluted and silly one.

But humans voluntarily followed were left ill-prepared by their creator to handle duplicity and then were duped by satan so they must voluntarily follow God or be punished for being tricked by satan before having any knowledge of the concept of a trick and why it is bad , this does not make God weak but JUST rather unfair and totally lacking in any forethought.

FTFY

[Elimentals]

Sorry I caught this thread so late.

The problem is that there have always been greedy men that have altered the scritpures to suit their greed , now when honest people say but this doesn't make sense people think they also want alter it for greed.

Well as in the JW case it does not help change the broken work with what you think is right. To fix the problem you would want to go back to the original source?

[Arthur]

The problem is that there have always been greedy men that have altered the scritpures to suit their greed , now when honest people say but this doesn't make sense people think they also want alter it for greed.

But that is well documented and understood, and current text conform with the earliest we have. The current 'textus receptus" is as accurate and conformant as all serious scholars for and against acknowledge. Gnostic sects invented dozens of 'gospels' and texts, but they were all authoritatively rejected by the 4th C when the canon was definitively settled. The only alterations made since then were by several so-called Reformers (such as Luther, who added in words here and there to support his heretical theology - his followers subsequently removed these changes).

Today the Jehovah's Witnesses have their own altered and modified version, but all scholars reject those changes as unhistorical and gratuitous. Nothing stops your or me or anyone else from coming out with their on Bible. But it is quickly recognised as a false/modified version by the magisterium.

The "scriptures are modified" argument has been refuted too many times throughout history to be taken seriously by scholars. Of course nothing stops anyone from raising it again and again, but they're just not familiar with the vast literature on this subject.

Translations, as always, are a challenge. In any text, on any subject.

[waynegohl]

God created the world and man but when man sinned all hell broke loose so he brought about a flood. A few genuine people were saved and then went bad so he sent his Son to die on the cross for us and still there is trouble in the land of confusion SO WHAT NEXT??? Two strikes already and we still no closer to a peaceful world.

ISAIAH 43:18 "Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. Yet we are all born into the sins of our fathers??? Something is not right here.

[falcon786]

In which way? Don't be fooled, islam is like most religions . . . illogical and irrational. Plain and simple!

The only thing thats plain and simple in this debate is your irrational hatred of religion,not our fault your preacher abused you when you were young.If thats not true then you certainly make it seem so.

You wanna talk rationally then lets do so but if you want to attack like a little kid on steroids then be prepared to get snide comments back at ya bud.

But that is exactly my problem. I know many don't see it this why but for me if the religion was true it would not need to be reworked to fit a certain view does not matter how much sense it makes its no longer the original.

Simply put if god was timeless as everyone claims why is his word not? Why all the translations and omissions.

Like another poster here has said there were men in the past who edited scriptures for political/greed reasons and therefore the originals were always changed the nice part about islam is that the Quraan cannot be changed.

There is no doubt in my mind that the original Christian and Jewish religions were correct and true.Its just that we don't have them in existence today,too much has changed to truly question every intricate detail.

Think of how long they are in existence and its easy to see how they could have been changed significantly.

[porchrat]

The only thing thats plain and simple in this debate is your irrational hatred of religion,not our fault your preacher abused you when you were young.

ROFL