Elite Mobile: Unauthorised debit order

[Rustum]

Today I discovered a debit order deduction on my bank account. It seems to be the first or only one (I still need to check older statements). R150, plus R12 fee. Code: Elim Elitemobile. It went through on 2 July.

I'm on prepaid and, since I do not have a fixed income, I stay away from cellphone contracts (and from debit orders). I have certainly not agreed to anything with Elite Mobile and have given no telesales person my bank account number, nor my ID number.

I called Nedbank. When I finally get to speak to someone, all Nedbank apparently can do is trace the debit order and give me contact details for the creditor. As they put it, I believe, the onus is on me to rag it out with the creditor.

I then lodged a complaint at HelloPeter, naming Elite Mobile. To their credit, they responded soon - but, probably because it was already after 17.00, they said they'll contact me "first thing in the morning". I'll wait and hear what their story is and report back.

The larger question remains: other than identity theft or some such crime by an individual or syndicate, if this is an "error" by an apparently legitimate company, how do they get my account details?

It's quite possible that my account and ID numbers may have fallen into criminal hands - either via snailmail or via the several companies to whom I submit invoices, but I remain sceptical. For telephonic agreement to debit orders, would I still not need to fax a copy of my ID? (I last did this in 2007).

Finally, I've been searching the forum for similar complaints, but find only a few threads, with differing complaints, on Elite Mobile.

Who is this company? Does anyone know more about them than that they are a seller for Vodacom?

They're owned by Comit Technologies (comittechnologies.co.za) and Ignition Group. A who.is shows one Sean Ryan Bergsma as CEO, and Comit Technologies has several ghost sites on the interwebs. Sean is on Facebook, with photographs of him enjoying the fruit of my R150 somewhere in a tropical paradise

Elite Mobile and the Ignition Group are also on Facebook. Any of you tech-heads know a bit more about this dubious company?

[mercurial]

WASPA their ass. There have been many complaints by many people on this matter.

[Rustum]

Thanks, Mecurial. I'm looking at the WASPA code of conduct, but can't seem to find specific coverage of my issue. Any suggestions (@anyone) which sections of the code may be applicable?

[Mike Hoxbig]

I've had Multichoice and Virgin Mobile both do this to me. Was always under the impression that due to FICA requirements, they would need a copy of my ID and proof of residence to debit my account. How the bank allowed this is beyond me. HelloPeter is your best bet to get your cash refunded to you.

[jacquesm]

Mike, for debit orders all you need is someone with a usercode at the ACB to process the debit orders for you and then the list of account holders name, branch code, account type and account number and the amount to debit.

There are "Data Cleaning Companies" that provide peoples personal data including ID, mobile number, bank details for R1.50 per user in their system. What they fail to take into account is mobile number churn (three months a number is inactive it gets reused) so some other person can authorise debit orders against your bank account if they have your old mobile number as the vendor will claim that you authorised that they could debit your account when their data is stale.

[Rustum]

Well, this is interesting. First, as promised, Elite Mobile called me just after 9.00. They do have a record for a top-up, done by my mom. She also banks at Nedbank. Elite Mobile is still investigating. My mom wouldn't give them my account details without my permission, and neither would I agree to such in any case (Still awaiting a callback from my mom ).

So, I suspect that when the debit order was mounted, the clerk at Nedbank may have made a mistake in selecting the wrong "Kozain". [edit: my surname] Or their mouse is borked.

I'm still waiting on Nedbank as well; they're supposed to call me.

[Rustum]

Damn, I feel like a fool. Although, only half a fool.

Elite Mobile sent me the audio of the call. My mom was cold-called, but her contract was due for renewal and her phone had fallen, so she wanted a new phone. My mom then inadvertently gave my account number to the telesales agent, read from some scrap of paper (my mom has always been good with numbers; that she couldn't recognise it wasn't her number is quite a bit of a shock).

The agent asked for the number to "confirm" my mom's existing account details. When my mom gives a number, the agent over-hastily OKs it. You can hear she is impatient, 10 minutes into a sales call with a hapless old-timer. So, same surname, same bank, click...

(According to Nedbank peeps I spoke to, banks simply provide a 'platform' by which companies can mount the debit orders. The telesales agents, I believe, thus have all your information on-screen.)

In all of this though, the people from Nedbank and Elite Mobile were actually very good in handling the matter. Elite Mobile could, however, admit their agent made a big error in "confirming" the wrong number, etc.

[Kosmik]

Damn, I feel like a fool. Although, only half a fool.

Elite Mobile sent me the audio of the call. My mom was cold-called, but her contract was due for renewal and her phone had fallen, so she wanted a new phone. My mom then inadvertently gave my account number to the telesales agent, read from some scrap of paper (my mom has always been good with numbers; that she couldn't recognise it wasn't her number is quite a bit of a shock).

The agent asked for the number to "confirm" my mom's existing account details. When my mom gives a number, the agent over-hastily OKs it. You can hear she is impatient, 10 minutes into a sales call with a hapless old-timer. So, same surname, same bank, click...

(According to Nedbank peeps I spoke to, banks simply provide a 'platform' by which companies can mount the debit orders. The telesales agents, I believe, thus have all your information on-screen.)

In all of this though, the people from Nedbank and Elite Mobile were actually very good in handling the matter. Elite Mobile could, however, admit their agent made a big error in "confirming" the wrong number, etc.

Pretty sure the agent should be able to look up the account holders name though and see that it's not the same person? Or at least the ID Number of the owner of the account vs the cell contract.

[Rustum]

Pretty sure the agent should be able to look up the account holders name though and see that it's not the same person? Or at least the ID Number of the owner of the account vs the cell contract.

Yes, the agent made a mistake. While I've had good response from Elite Mobile, they haven't apologised for this at all... or not yet. Meh.

[cbrunsdonza]

WASPA their ass. There have been many complaints by many people on this matter.

Got nothing to do with WASPA as its a bank debit - once again WASPA shows itself to be a toothless phantom.

[dyanamo]

I work in the debit industry. Its very easy to debit someones account. All I need is a account number and a branch code and I can debit YOUR account for how ever much I want. You are welcome to stop it though and the banks will reverse the debit (with or without proof of consent to debit but a a lot of filling in papers). The onus is on the merchant then to sort it out with the client by either stopping the service or finding some other ways to recoup the money. The banks will normally always side with the client on this matter as well.

[Rustum]

Thanks Dyanamo for that confirmation of how things work.