Setting up a hybrid network WUG/WISP combo .... WUSP

[MyDraadloos]

I own and operate a number of small businesses in the coastal town of Struisbaai / Cape Agulhas at the southern tip of Africa and it has come to my attention that there is a need for a community network, but it needs to be something more than just a WUG.

I am now stuck in the idea of setting up a hybrid network ... a WUG that offers internet access / a WISP that is non-profit. Looking to do this under the banner of the local chamber of commerce. The local business community is small enough that one could actually get everyone to work together for the greater good.

Area is not that big and the total footprint of the 1st fase should only be a few square kilometers.

Tentative discussions with WAPA have indicated that no license is required if the entity is a registered NPO. I am thinking that if most of the local businesses move onto the network then it should be able to fund itself and provide limited free internet access to tourists / visitors to the town.

There is one high site that would give me access to the whole area but it is unlikely that Telkom / Vodacom will give me access to this tower. (I will look for a loophole.)

The alternative is to do it as a WiFi mesh network with short hops between individual business, with each hosting a hotspot for customers.

Things I would like to use the network for:
-Host some cameras that will help with tourism and community policing. Live feed to Windfinder.com for the kitesurfers and boating fraternity. IR capable cameras to keep infrastructure like the boardwalk safe.
-Hotspots hosted by local businesses.
-Affordable shared internet access for local businesses
-Gaming server for local and visiting youth
-Community information network, possibly broadcasting to multiple locations during festivals etc.
-Internet access for the local frail care centre. Skype calls to family, FB and streaming of community meetings and events.

Would appreciate any feedback, opinions and ideas you might have as I view MyBB as the brains trust for the SA geek community.

[eddief1]

Things to consider:

Get solid, concrete legal advise, try Ellipsis.

If you going to be providing internet access where are you going to get that internet from? Will you wireless all the way to cape town for transit bandwidth? Teraco ? Neotel fibre ? This could be your single biggest problem. You will need radius servers and such for auth and billing.

Stick to the single high site option if possible. It will greatly reduce your capital expenditure. Only one DC UPS, only one AP. With mesh you could run into problems with power failures, local business hosting a node unplugs the power etc. It happens more than you think.

Do your homework on bandwidth requirements, IP camera's chew bandwidth, how many camera's you going to run? this will directly influence the network design and bandwidth requirements.

What you planning seems easy but without knowing the details we can not give you the precise advice that is necessary.

[MyDraadloos]

Hi Eddief1,

I have gotten advise from Ellipsis via WAPA, but some of their policy documents are unreadable due to bad grammar.

3.1.1. Non-profit ECS

The provision of ECS on a non-profit basis is licence exempt.

ECS provided by an entity which is a
• non-profit organisation established under an Act of Parliament or
• a company registered in terms of section 21 of the Companies Act
will be licence exempt as will ECS provided free to the public free.

Try reading that sober.

As for bandwidth I believe there that neither Teraco or Neotel are represented here. Zero fiber infrastructure. Will likely use a couple of ADSL connections and shop for a good bandwidth deal. Seeing as there is only a single exchange in town alternate routing will not be possible. Have received and offer satellite bandwidth but this is not realistic.

I will weigh up the mesh versus high site scenario again, I see your point.

If I can have the cameras on a separate vLan on the WiFi then I can throttle the updates going to the WWW. IP cameras should pose a problem for the WLAN should it ?

Initially I would settle for 2 cameras, maybe 3. Have everything mapped out on Google Earth.

If I am saying enough it is because I am making it up as I go along. If you can steer me in the best direction then it would be so much easier.

I am not an uber techie .... I am more of an technical interpreter. I am good with matching up technology to a business case, but the details I leave for the people in the know.

[eddief1]

Please don't count me as an expert but I have done a few of these so should be able to give you a baseline. No doubt there are other forum members who will chime in, there are more ways than one to skin a cat.

Regarding licensing, it looks like if one you are not charging for the service or are a non profit you ok.

You said you were considering camera's for community policing so I am assuming you want those to stream live over the wireless to a central location for monitoring and recording then you want to allow access to those cameras via WWW by updating a webpage with static images, do I understand this correctly? If so with so few cameras, bandwidth over the wireless will not be a problem even for a full HD stream, however if you want a live stream to the WWW then you will have to consider the fps and resolution carefully.

If you go the one high site route does that high site have to provide 360degree coverage, this will influence your antennae configuration on that site. Consider the following for the highsite:

Ubiquity Rocket M5
http://www.scoopdistribution.co.za/p...roducts_id=882
With the appropriate antennae for the desired coverage, you might have to have two of these. Either to provide more coverage or to provide more bandwidth.
use the Ubiquity NanoLoco M5 or Nanostation M5 for your clients. For your back haul back to your POP you can use the Nanobridge M5.
Ubiquity also have cameras which you could consider.

Play with this to see your required antennae height to ensure you have a clear Fresnel zone between client and AP. http://www.ubnt.com/airlink/

Seems unless you want to build a very long wireless link (This could be an option for the future) then looks like you are stuck with DSL to provide the internet side of things. It really is not the best solution but is currently being done if you happen to be on a rock solid exchange that is not congested! get ready for some headaches when the DSL goes down because sometime it will! Locate your DSL lines as physically possible to the exchange this might ease your headaches. I think satellite will be your only option for backup bandwidth, I think Vox telecom provides a satellite solution specifically for backup purposes. 3G could be considered an option but in small towns it is common for vodacom to rent t1's from telkom for backhaul, so if the exchange goes down then there is a good chance everything would go down. Who knows how they route things, quite hard to find detailed info about this. In the end how you work it all really depends on how many users you going to serve and what speeds you going to offer. You would be needing some routing equipment too.

PM me if you looking to outsource the implementation as I will be able to help you with that, I am however always willing to discuss the details on the public forum if you wish.

The logical configuration (VLAN's) etc is pretty flexible so will not be an issue.

[Sokum]

http://www.uninet.co.za/news/12-knys...-free-hotspots, More info.
and
http://www.dbg.co.za/, Best Prices

[MyDraadloos]

Hi Eddief1,

Thank you for your very detailed answer, I think you are reading me correct. I would throttle the video going out of the network. The network will be funded b y the businesses that form part of the local Chamber of Commerce. If I convert their current Telkom & ISP spend and offer more functionality then it should be a "no brainer" and the network will be able to fund itself.

Still thinking about a voucher scheme for visitors and how to implement that.

Once I have a complete costing and budget I will let you know if I have any funds left over to get assistance. ;-)

Will have a look at all the info you have posted and review.

[MyDraadloos]

PS. One of the 1st sites I want to utilise for a hotspot just blew their ADSL/WiFi modem .... what should I tell them to replace it with? This will save me some repeat cost later and make it an easy demo site to implement. Something that is capable of running a hotspot and will be able to connect to WiFi/WUG/WUSP network .....

[eddief1]

PS. One of the 1st sites I want to utilise for a hotspot just blew their ADSL/WiFi modem .... what should I tell them to replace it with? This will save me some repeat cost later and make it an easy demo site to implement. Something that is capable of running a hotspot and will be able to connect to WiFi/WUG/WUSP network .....

That all depends how you going to setup the network in the future...The router that blew is probably an ADSL Modem/Router/Wifi combo. If for example you take a coffee shop how we do it is to use a Rocket M5 on their roof connecting to our wireless network, then Cat5 from there to a Miktotik router in the customers premesis. Something like this:
http://www.scoopdistribution.co.za/p...oducts_id=1244

What I would do is to get the above and a DSL bridge. http://www.scoopdistribution.co.za/p...oducts_id=1179 you will be needing the bridge because the mikrotik does not have a built in DSL modem. When you want to transfer them from DSL to your wireless network, scrap the bridge and connect the mikrotik to the Rocket M5 you put on the roof. You can then reuse the DSL bridge for your wireless network in the future.

The mikrotik is a great device, you can have multiple SSID's which means your can create more than one hotspot using the same device, this is handy when say you want two wireless networks, one for the public on a voucher system and one for the coffee shop owner for business use, you can assign different speeds/packages for each "hotspot"

Be warned though if you don't know the mikrotik you in for a steep learning curve...

In all honesty I doubt you will be able to formulate a budget if you don't know what your network design is going to be...the network design is the most important part, it's easy to install the equipment but everything before that depends on the network design..you going to burn through cash if you don't have your final design BEFORE you start with the implementation. there is no point in worrying about the voucher system now, you need to concentrate on the network that is going to transport that data around.

There are also so many small things you have to consider...you at the coast, rust is going to be a problem, does your high site have AC power, if not you will need solar and the list goes on and on.

[MyDraadloos]

You make it sound rather ominous, but I think I will still forge ahead and try to do this. If I try to find all the money to do this upfront it will never happen. Best thing is to to set up a hotspot 1st and show people how things can work. Just want an affordable way to do this with equipment I can re-use.

[MyDraadloos]

That all depends how you going to setup the network in the future...The router that blew is probably an ADSL Modem/Router/Wifi combo. If for example you take a coffee shop how we do it is to use a Rocket M5 on their roof connecting to our wireless network, then Cat5 from there to a Miktotik router in the customers premesis. Something like this:
http://www.scoopdistribution.co.za/p...oducts_id=1244

What I would do is to get the above and a DSL bridge. http://www.scoopdistribution.co.za/p...oducts_id=1179 you will be needing the bridge because the mikrotik does not have a built in DSL modem. When you want to transfer them from DSL to your wireless network, scrap the bridge and connect the mikrotik to the Rocket M5 you put on the roof. You can then reuse the DSL bridge for your wireless network in the future.

The mikrotik is a great device, you can have multiple SSID's which means your can create more than one hotspot using the same device, this is handy when say you want two wireless networks, one for the public on a voucher system and one for the coffee shop owner for business use, you can assign different speeds/packages for each "hotspot"

Be warned though if you don't know the mikrotik you in for a steep learning curve...

In all honesty I doubt you will be able to formulate a budget if you don't know what your network design is going to be...the network design is the most important part, it's easy to install the equipment but everything before that depends on the network design..you going to burn through cash if you don't have your final design BEFORE you start with the implementation. there is no point in worrying about the voucher system now, you need to concentrate on the network that is going to transport that data around.

There are also so many small things you have to consider...you at the coast, rust is going to be a problem, does your high site have AC power, if not you will need solar and the list goes on and on.

I went shopping today for the items on your shopping list. Any surprises in setting this up ?

[MyDraadloos]

Is there anything I should remember when setting up the RB751 ?
Still looking for an idiot guide to setting this up.

[MyDraadloos]

I think my dream of building an open network to benefit the town is going to die with MikroTik. I guess I underestimated the learning curve when compared with the normal off the shelf consumer equipment.

There is no doubt that the MikroTik OS is infinitely configurable .... I just don't have infinite time to learn everything there is to know about networking. I thought I knew enough ; apparently I know nothing.

[GarethY]

Heh.

Why not just go on a Mikrotik course? It could take months for you to try learn it on your own.

http://www.mikrotiksa.com/


I was lucky to have someone teach me the basics. I learnt the rest of what I needed to know myself, but it really was a struggle.

[MyDraadloos]

Sounds like a good idea, but I am pretty remote myself. Gonna try a few more times before I start pulling my hair out .... and I don't give up easily.

Heh.

Why not just go on a Mikrotik course? It could take months for you to try learn it on your own.

http://www.mikrotiksa.com/


I was lucky to have someone teach me the basics. I learnt the rest of what I needed to know myself, but it really was a struggle.

[portcullis]

I'm in the mood for a break and do this kind of thing for a living. How about talking one of your hostelieries into providing free digs / food for a couple of days while I set the whole lot up and teach you how to drive the network?