Muslim clerics call for the demolition of Egypt’s Great Pyramids

[Techne]

Yeah... or the church preserved that knowledge that was in accordence with it's world view and only allowed speculation that didn't contradict it's doctrine one or the other.

Politics. You see it today and will continue to see it in the future. Leaders want to cling to power and they will use and abuse whatever ideology/belief system is most prevalent in the day.

I love how you casually say "stamped out paganism" as if they did the world a favour by imposing their own superstitions on the world at the point of a sword. Thanks Christianity.

We can't really quantify how much paganism would have contributed or hindered progress (whatever you mean by that). What is certain is that empirical science and methodological naturalism were developed in the high middle ages by scholastics under Christian Europe.

[ghoti]

All the way to the fist stone been worshipped, people have destroyed what they believe threatened their beliefs,

I think what you are trying to say there is this:

but this doesn’t excuse the actions of these Muslims in today’s world

There is no excuse for the Muslims actions of today, or the evil actions of Christianity in yesteryear. None are justifiable.

[Techne]

The Romans themselves were pagans before Constantine became self-righteous and took it upon himself to merge state with church. And as pagans they did pretty well to build the biggest empire that Europe's ever seen. It is you who needs to read up more. Please don't try to justify any of the crap that the Christians pulled.

Point being, it wasn't the fault of Christianity that resulted in the destruction of the Roman empire. You can thank the goths, visgoths, gauls barbarians etc. for that.

And under the Church, lots of knowledge was gained and preserved during the early parts of the middle ages that resulted in the fruits of the middle and high ages. Read up, very interesting.

[Mike Hoxbig]

What is certain is that empirical science and methodological naturalism were developed in the high middle ages by scholastics under Christian Europe.

No, it came with the Renaissance, and even then scholars were persecuted by Christians if the church didn't agree with them.

[Elimentals]

No, it came with the Renaissance, and even then scholars were persecuted by Christians if the church didn't agree with them.

In all fairness they did apologize to some of them

http://4thefirsttime.blogspot.com/20...ogizes-to.html

[FNfal]

That would be a crime against humanity.....and i would be willing to contribute money to send people to go kick their a$$ if they did that .

[R/SGT]

I think what you are trying to say there is this:




There is no excuse for the Muslims actions of today, or the evil actions of Christianity in yesteryear. None are justifiable.

That is exactly the cartoon I was thinking of 100%

Agreed

[Techne]

No, it came with the Renaissance, and even then scholars were persecuted by Christians if the church didn't agree with them.

Re bolded part, if you are referring to the Renaissance of the 12th century and the Scholasticism of the High Middle Ages then you are correct.

"The modern emphasis in methodological naturalism primarily originated in the ideas of medieval scholastic thinkers during the Renaissance of the 12th century".

They basically invented empirical science, the Renaissance of the 16th century did not evolve from a void.
"Scholastics believed in empiricism and supporting Roman Catholic doctrines through secular study, reason, and logic."

Read up, it is quite fascinating. Also, without old Galileo, there really is not much else to pin the church on for stifling reason and science as one atheist blogger notes:

As mentioned above, no manifestation of "the Myth" is complete without the Galileo Affair being raised. The proponents of the idea that the Church stifled science and reason in the Middle Ages have to wheel him out, because without him they actually have absolutely zero examples of the Church persecuting anyone for anything to do with inquiries into the natural world. The common conception that Galileo was persecuted for being right about heliocentrism is a total oversimplification of a complex business, and one that ignores the fact that Galileo's main problem was not simply that his ideas disagreed with scriptural interpretation but also with the science of the time. Contrary to the way the affair is usually depicted, the real sticking point was the fact that the scientific objections to heliocentrism at the time were still powerful enough to prevent its acceptance. Cardinal Bellarmine made it clear to Galileo in 1616 that if those scientific objections could be overcome then scripture could and would be reinterpreted. But while the objections still stood the Church, understandably, was hardly going to overturn several centuries of exegesis for the sake of a flawed theory. Galileo agreed to only teach heliocentrism as a theoretical calculating device, then promptly turned around and, in typical style, taught it as fact. Thus his prosecution by the Inquistion in 1633.

[thestaggy]

I can believe this.

I don't know if you folks have picked up on this but the UNESCO recognised religious sites in Timbuktu are currently being destroyed or damaged my extreme Islamists.

About a dozen militants arrived in an armored four-wheel drive truck, armed with pickaxes and hoes. They fired in the air to intimidate people and started smashing the tombs, said Ibrahim Cisse, who witnessed the scene.

"They blocked the two main roads leading to the mausoleums. When they saw people gathering for a ceremony nearby, they began firing shots in the air," said another resident, Mahamad ould Ibrahim.

The new destruction comes after attacks last week on other historic and religious landmarks in Timbuktu that UNESCO called "wanton destruction". Even more disturbing is many of the mausoleums in Timbuktu are in fact Muslim.

Islamists of the Ansar Dine group say the centuries-old shrines of the local Sufi version of Islam are idolatrous.

Ansar Dine and well-armed allies, including al Qaeda splinter group MUJWA, have hijacked a separatist uprising by local Tuareg MNLA rebels and now control two-thirds of Mali's desert north, territory that includes the regions of Gao, Kidal and Timbuktu.

They have destroyed at least eight of 16 listed mausoleums in the city, together with a number of tombs and a sacred door at Sidi Yahya mosque, in their campaign to erase traces of what they regard as un-Islamic idolatry.

According to UNESCO, Djingareyber, together with the Sankore and Sidi Yahia mosques, are known as the three great mosques of the city. Djingareyber was built by the sultan Kankan Moussa after his return in 1325 from a pilgrimage to Mecca. -- Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8690O420120710

Omar Hamaha is a one-man whirlwind of piety and fury. For more than a decade he has been accused of raiding government outposts in Mauritania, Algeria and Niger; he has allegedly held Western hostages for extravagant ransoms, and — without any doubt — preached a ferocious asceticism through the barrel of a gun as he proselytized across the region. Riding with al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), he crisscrossed the shadowless Sahara in the service of a god he envisioned as unforgiving as the desert itself. He invoked Koranic verses to protect himself from the “evil work of devils” and “the biting of snakes and scorpions,” learned to navigate by the sun, moon and stars, and believed that meteor showers were battles between jinnis and angels. It has been a ferocious transformation for a former student of accounting.
...
He has championed the demolition of several Muslim mausoleums that UNESCO had declared historic. He said the destruction was justified on the grounds that “those who believe” in the veneration of such shrines “are driven by Satan.” On Tuesday, the Islamists in Timbuktu reportedly destroyed two more tombs at the 14th century Djingareyber mosque. “It’s forbidden by Islam to pray on tombs and ask for blessings,” says Hamaha, “Ansar Eddine is showing the rest of world, especially Western countries, that whether they want it or not, we will not let the younger generation believe in shrines as God, regardless of what the U.N., UNESCO, International Criminal Court or ECOWAS [the Economic Community of West African States] have to say. We do not recognize these organizations. The only thing we recognize is the court of God, Shari‘a. Shari‘a is a divine obligation, people don’t get to choose whether they like it or not.”-- Time

http://world.time.com/2012/07/10/des...f-the-shrines/

If they can destroy ancient sites that were built by Muslims, I can see them having a go at the pyramids, and especially when they have someone like this Omar Hamaha chap sprouting his vitriol.

[marine1]

Such a peaceful bunch

[Mila]

Ffs. Idiots.

[Mineer]

so Much of fail in this thread, the story is not even confirmed, and if confirmed I now as all the Muslims in this thread am completely against such actions (to demolish the Pyramids),
Firstly the Pyramids existed in the time of our beloved prophet (P.B.U.H), and he knew of the existence Pyramids in Egypt too and not once did he call for the destruction of the Pyramids

Secondly the destroying of idols is obligatory on Muslims it is only obligatory, if we have won over the hearts of the people in the area firstly and completely I.E. no should be worshiping those Idols, as Islam respects ones right to believe in any other religion (freedom of religion this also confirmed in the Holy Quran),

Thirdly Pyramids are considers as buildings and not as idols and when ever there was a war, this first thing our prophet (P.B.U.H) would do is declare that no Religious building should be destroyed nor woman or children.

sorry but fail thread is fail

[Elimentals]

so Much of fail in this thread, the story is not even confirmed, and if confirmed I now as all the Muslims in this thread am completely against such actions (to demolish the Pyramids),
Firstly the Pyramids existed in the time of our beloved prophet (P.B.U.H), and he knew of the existence Pyramids in Egypt too and not once did he call for the destruction of the Pyramids

Secondly the destroying of idols is obligatory on Muslims it is only obligatory, if we have won over the hearts of the people in the area firstly and completely I.E. no should be worshiping those Idols, as Islam respects ones right to believe in any other religion (freedom of religion this also confirmed in the Holy Quran),

Thirdly Pyramids are considers as buildings and not as idols and when ever there was a war, this first thing our prophet (P.B.U.H) would do is declare that no Religious building should be destroyed nor woman or children.

sorry but fail thread is fail

Do not make me laugh..
A religion that do not even respect women during peace is to respect them during war? Yeah right.

And in my view Mecca is a pagan as you can get, praying towards a black rock set in a building is as close as an idol as you can get, I know you do not see it that way but for me it is. You do not see me calling on its destruction?

[ghoti]

so Much of fail in this thread, the story is not even confirmed, and if confirmed I now as all the Muslims in this thread am completely against such actions (to demolish the Pyramids),
Firstly the Pyramids existed in the time of our beloved prophet (P.B.U.H), and he knew of the existence Pyramids in Egypt too and not once did he call for the destruction of the Pyramids

Secondly the destroying of idols is obligatory on Muslims it is only obligatory, if we have won over the hearts of the people in the area firstly and completely I.E. no should be worshiping those Idols, as Islam respects ones right to believe in any other religion (freedom of religion this also confirmed in the Holy Quran),

Thirdly Pyramids are considers as buildings and not as idols and when ever there was a war, this first thing our prophet (P.B.U.H) would do is declare that no Religious building should be destroyed nor woman or children.

sorry but fail thread is fail

Thats a wonderful bubble you live in. Surprised you can hear anyone else.

[Mike Hoxbig]

And in my view Mecca is a pagan as you can get, praying towards a black rock set in a building is as close as an idol as you can get, I know you do not see it that way but for me it is.

Then it's "symbolic". It's the same with Christians who carry around a cross with Jesus nailed to it and clutch on to it when they pray, but claim that others worship idols when then do the same.