Geographic name changes - Why should you really care?

[antowan]

Seriously. Why should we give a heck what government changes it to?

Is it worth the trouble getting worked up and charging your blood pressure through the roof? What for?

Why the hell should we care? Some of the street names have been renamed before. Very few (most are original) but some have been renamed before by the Apartheid government.

I used to care but it is not worth the trouble. Those who oppose are always in the minority anyway. It is futile. Or is it?

Give me three good reasons why we should give a hoot!

[Ekstasis]

Seriously. Why should we give a heck what government changes it to?

Is it worth the trouble getting worked up and charging your blood pressure through the roof? What for?

Why the hell should we care? Some of the street names have been renamed before. Very few (most are original) but some have been renamed before by the Apartheid government.

What value is there in any name for anything?

Give me three good reasons why we should give a hoot!

As long as they don't change the "Springboks"
As for street and place names, I don't mind either. What does trouble me is the difficult names they give - personally I cannot pronounce some of them

[Pr⊕phet]

For one it is bloody confusing at times. Now one really needs a GPS to travel PTA. If I say Hanstrydom you'd know what I'm talking about, but now if I say Solomon and Garsfotein... I'd doubt you would know of the top of your head.

There is also the question of what it costs businesses to rebrand/remap. ANC pisses away our tax on it, it costs them nothing, but it is the honest man who always pays twice in the end for their insecurities.

Finally better spent that kind of cash on education and really liberating, but we all know that that is not the mandate. The mandate is to keep the poor poor, stupid and uneducated. Anything but that is a threat.

Seriously. Why should we give a heck what government changes it to?

Is it worth the trouble getting worked up and charging your blood pressure through the roof? What for?

Why the hell should we care? Some of the street names have been renamed before. Very few (most are original) but some have been renamed before by the Apartheid government.

I used to care but it is not worth the trouble. Those who oppose are always in the minority anyway. It is futile. Or is it?

Give me three good reasons why we should give a hoot!

[Ekstasis]

well said...

[wrathex]

I don't care, but I understand that members of a community/rate payers might care if their street names are offensive.

Some people are pedantic/emotional about just such details, leaving others free not to be.

Historical artifacts should not be lightly dismantled or discarded or changed, for it reflects the truth of how things were, however 'out of sight and out of mind' is perhaps a better choice for reconciliation in our racially vibrant and politically troublesome society at some locations.

Furthermore these places and names might well have tourist value now and in the future and could be used as tourist landmarks or routes by business savvy residents.

Best value for money:
If you are a member of a community where historical events have taken place, you should make sure that name changes are kept to a minimum.

[antowan]

I used to get all upset but nowadays I honestly just think why the hell get excited about it. I have a GPS. It is kinda like space travel now. If you have the technology you are fine... I am personally detaching myself from the politics of the country. It is too bothersome. I want to have a farking happy life without worrying about the crap we are expected to worry about on a daily basis here. I wanna make money, live happy, enjoy the natural beauty of the country and have fun with friends and family till the day I die. I am NOT going to spend my little time on this planet running after street names and city names etc. They can change whatever the hell they want! Go wild all day long every day for all I care just leave me the fark alone and provide me with proper infrastructure and room to live my life in peace. That is all I want.

[TJ99]

I don't care, but I understand that members of a community/rate payers might care if their street names are offensive.

Some people are pedantic/emotional about just such details, leaving others free not to be.

Historical artifacts should not be lightly dismantled or discarded or changed, for it reflects the truth of how things were, however 'out of sight and out of mind' is perhaps a better choice for reconciliation in our racially vibrant and politically troublesome society at some locations.

Furthermore these places and names might well have tourist value now and in the future and could be used as tourist landmarks or routes by business savvy residents.

Best value for money:
If you are a member of a community where historical events have taken place, you should make sure that name changes are kept to a minimum.

Another brilliant post from a brilliant poster.

OP, yes you're a mod, yes you have the power, but seriously, in the nicest way possible, harden the **** up. It's fine if you don't care, it's your right 100%, but don't you dare speak for the people who do still care. (Or failing that, the people who do still have common sense, as posted above.)

Yes, some streets, towns, etc were renamed by the old dumbass government for their ignorant ideologies, and that was just as wrong. Rename those by all means. I was one of the first to applaud renaming the town of Verwoerdburg (renamed from Lyttelton) to Centurion, since there were purely political bull**** reasons behind the first renaming anyways. Leave the rest alone. Two (or more) wrongs have never made a right. And please, stop being so sorry for existing. Being the minority has zero relevance, all that matters is whether you're right or wrong.

Even if what I said doesn't matter (which is highly likely for various reasons), consider this: Renaming anything is a positive action. There should be a reason to do it, not to prevent it.

Sorry to get all cliché here, (especially considering the source), but all that is required for evil to flourish is the indifference of good men. The evil bastards are counting on the indifference of good men, which is the order of the day here it seems.

[antowan]

Another brilliant post from a brilliant poster.

OP, yes you're a mod, yes you have the power, but seriously, in the nicest way possible, harden the **** up. It's fine if you don't care, it's your right 100%, but don't you dare speak for the people who do still care. (Or failing that, the people who do still have common sense, as posted above.)

Wait a minute. I am not claiming to speak for anybody but myself. The question is an honest one. And I am toughened up.

[antowan]

I was one of the first to applaud renaming the town of Verwoerdburg (renamed from Lyttelton) to Centurion, since there were purely political bull**** reasons behind the first renaming anyways. Leave the rest alone. Two (or more) wrongs have never made a right. And please, stop being so sorry for existing. Being the minority has zero relevance, all that matters is whether you're right or wrong.

Right and wrong doesn't make a difference TJ99. This is a democratic country the last time I checked. Majority political will counts. I am just accepting it. I also believe in right and wrong issues, but there is no way in hell I am putting my cock on a block for a street name. The effort versus the reward is just not making sense. Convince me in a better way than giving me the William Wallace on horseback movie speech. Seriously. Convince me why I should lift a finger (taking into account that I have protested and marched for the name of Pretoria before) and not focus on making a better life for my family instead of fighting government around every corner on naming issues?

[TJ99]

Wait a minute. I am not claiming to speak for anybody but myself. The question is an honest one. And I am toughened up.

Sorry for misunderstanding then, but I seem to get that same statement from a lot pf people these days.

The fact is, the rest still stands. There has to be a reason FOR doing something, not against it. And just because only the minority is right, doesn't mean you should give up, even if there is no chance of getting your way, be it name changing, E-tolls, increasing electricity prices even though Eskom execs get massive bonuses, whatever the case may be.

[antowan]

Sorry for misunderstanding then, but I seem to get that same statement from a lot pf people these days.

The fact is, the rest still stands. There has to be a reason FOR doing something, not against it. And just because only the minority is right, doesn't mean you should give up, even if there is no chance of getting your way, be it name changing, E-tolls, increasing electricity prices even though Eskom execs get massive bonuses, whatever the case may be.

On money issues like electricity and roads I agree. It affects my pocket ad infinitum. Street names that change don't. The cost tends to be limited to a once off expenditure for name changes where as a toll road is the gift that keeps on taking. The same for electricity costs...

I don't see a long term win on name issues. Look at the Pretoria name change issue. The metro will in the end move the changes through. It is in fact a matter of time. There was supposedly an agreement regarding street names in exchange for the city remaining Pretoria. It fell through. As was expected. And the metro isn't all bad. The city cleanup project launched by the mayor recently is good news. So evil is relative.

Changing the name of Pretoria will be sad and is completely unjustified and historical sacrilege, but worse things can happen...

[TJ99]

Right and wrong doesn't make a difference TJ99. This is a democratic country the last time I checked. Majority political will counts. I am just accepting it. I also believe in right and wrong issues, but there is no way in hell I am putting my cock on a block for a street name. The effort versus the reward is just not making sense. Convince me in a better way than giving me the William Wallace on horseback movie speech. Seriously. Convince me why I should lift a finger (taking into account that I have protested and marched for the name of Pretoria before) and not focus on making a better life for my family instead of fighting government around every corner on naming issues?

Well then it seems you're following the ANC interpretation of "democracy", not the real one the most of the sane world accepts. Democracy doesn't mean that just because you belong to a group (however it's defined for the purposes of the argument being made), that happens to be the most populous, you get to trample over all the other groups and they have to fall in line. In fact it's supposed to protect against that. I'm not trying to give you the William Wallace speech or anything, I don't mean become an activist/terrorist and/or harm anyone, but do what you rightly can under the democratic law. Make your concerns known. Use media connections, but be fair. Don't mudsling but point out the absurdity of what's going on whenever you get the chance. Vote. Get everyone you know who says it's hopeless, to vote. Whatever power you have, use it. I'm probably one of the most pragmatic and realistic people I know, so I know that all your efforts and my efforts will probably not change anything, but purely through doing it, you're sending a message.

I don't have kids so maybe that changes my perspective somewhat. But if I did have, I'd want them knowing their father did the right thing, even if it didn't amount to much. Isn't that also making a better life for your family, letting them have some pride? (Especially if you don't really give up any material wealth for it?)

[TJ99]

On money issues like electricity and roads I agree. It affects my pocket ad infinitum. Street names that change don't. The cost tends to be limited to a once off expenditure for name changes where as a toll road is the gift that keeps on taking. The same for electricity costs...

I don't see a long term win on name issues. Look at the Pretoria name change issue. The metro will in the end move the changes through. It is in fact a matter of time. There was supposedly an agreement regarding street names in exchange for the city remaining Pretoria. It fell through. As was expected. And the metro isn't all bad. The city cleanup project launched by the mayor recently is good news. So evil is relative.

Changing the name of Pretoria will be sad and is completely unjustified and historical sacrilege, but worse things can happen...

Oh come on. He wants to clean up the city centre (which is his job!!!!), by 2055??? WTF is that?

Look at what's going on in the city, and the extended Tshwane metro area. There are thousands of people living in squalor. Hundreds of streets with no names (some not even tarred apparently), from Pretoria, through Mamelodi all the way up to Hammanskraal. Truly great leaders would fix those and name them whatever they want. They'd build a 16-lane highway right next to DF Malan or Hans Strydom and show some real initiative. And don't be fooled into thinking they can't, the government budget of today dwarfs that of when the cities and major roads were built, in adjusted terms. Of course evil is relative, but it's up to us to recognise and stop it. By the way, if you think name-changing doesn't affect you apart from looking at the lower part of roadsigns, think again. All businesses (companies, CC's etc) in those streets have to have their official addresses changed, as in re-registered, at their cost. Who do you think will end up paying for it? Not to mention the direct cost being taken from taxpayers for updating all the legal documents, building roadsigns (a big cost in itself), advertising, diplomatic issues (as there are several embassies etc located in those streets) etc. etc.

[antowan]

TJ99 one should not have to fight the battles we are expected to fight in a normal society. I used to but now I simply do not have the time.

[TJ99]

Well that's what they bargain on. It's the thin end of the wedge story. People just have better things to do than to speak out. Today they change some tiny town's name, tomorrow the capital city. Today they levy an actual, realistic tax just a bit higher than normal, tomorrow it's paying per km for a road you already pay for. Today a 16% increase in rates, tomorrow you pay for the services that rates are for separately.

I agree though that we all have our responsibilities, that's why I say just do your bit when the opportunity arises (through voting, encouraging others, etc) Very few of us have the luxury of making time to "fight" for something but that doesn't mean we should just give up and take it all.

Edit: By the way, I totally agree with the above, but since when have we lived in a normal society?