High Latency to Australia - Afrihost

[Malooga]

Hi Guys,

My very first post :-P

I slightly new to South African internet, so I'm wondering....

Is there latency to Australia with every ISP in South Africa? Is it as simple as we don't have a direct connection to them?

as per my traceroute below..

C:\Users\Chris-home>tracert www.whirlpool.net.au

Tracing route to www.whirlpool.net.au [117.53.171.171]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms login.router [10.0.0.2]
2 8 ms 7 ms 9 ms 196-210-201-1.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.201.1]
3 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 196.38.72.125
4 14 ms 9 ms 10 ms 196.35.115.136
5 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms core2b-ctn-gi0-2.ip.isnet.net [168.209.6.3]
6 251 ms 248 ms 248 ms 168.209.100.81
7 264 ms 252 ms 252 ms 168.209.245.2
8 253 ms 251 ms 248 ms nyiix.he.net [198.32.160.61]
9 248 ms 246 ms 248 ms 10gigabitethernet6-2.core1.nyc4.he.net [72.52.92.49]
10 323 ms 321 ms 320 ms 10gigabitethernet10-1.core1.sjc2.he.net [184.105.213.173]
11 312 ms 319 ms 337 ms 10gigabitethernet1-4.core1.sjc1.he.net [72.52.92.117]
12 319 ms 320 ms 318 ms vocus.gigabitethernet2-13.core1.sjc1.he.net [64.71.184.46]
13 479 ms 478 ms 478 ms pos-0-0-1.cor02.syd03.nsw.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.199.47]
14 481 ms 476 ms 475 ms ip-203.192.31.114.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.192.203]
15 469 ms 467 ms 466 ms ge-0-0-2.bdr01.syd01.nsw.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.192.36]
16 494 ms 482 ms 475 ms Gi0-0-3-692-0.bdr01.syd07.aunsw.bltprf.net [119.161.90.162]
17 480 ms 475 ms 477 ms www.whirlpool.net.au [117.53.171.171]

Trace complete.

Looks like the connection goes to New York, then San Jose, then only makes a turn towards Australia and because it has to travel that distance the latency would be high... But what I can explain is the huge jump in latency between hope 5 and 6.

Another one...


C:\Users\Chris-home>tracert www.iinet.net.au

Tracing route to www.iinet.net.au [203.173.50.151]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 12 ms 5 ms 3 ms login.router [10.0.0.2]
2 8 ms 7 ms 9 ms 196-210-201-1.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.201.1]
3 19 ms 23 ms 26 ms cdsl1-ctn-vl2173.ip.isnet.net [196.38.72.113]
4 14 ms 17 ms 17 ms 196.35.115.128
5 9 ms 12 ms 13 ms core1b-ctn-gi0-2.ip.isnet.net [168.209.6.4]
6 165 ms 170 ms 175 ms 168.209.246.1
7 162 ms 163 ms 161 ms linx.internode.on.net [195.66.225.96]
8 317 ms 320 ms 320 ms te0-3-0.bdr1.iad1.internode.on.net [203.16.211.33]
9 335 ms 315 ms 329 ms gi0-0-0.bdr1.lax1.internode.on.net [203.16.213.185]
10 311 ms 311 ms 311 ms te4-0-0.bdr1.sjc2.internode.on.net [203.16.213.149]
11 504 ms 509 ms 493 ms xe-0-1-3.syd-ult-core1.iinet.net.au [203.16.213.166]
12 533 ms 527 ms 480 ms ae0.syd-mas-core1.iinet.net.au [203.215.20.111]
13 477 ms 476 ms 483 ms te1-0-0.per-qv1-bdr2.iinet.net.au [203.215.20.69]
14 476 ms 476 ms 481 ms te1-0-1-113.per-qv1-bdr1.iinet.net.au [203.215.4.40]
15 490 ms * 476 ms gi5-1.icp-osb-core1.iinet.net.au [203.215.4.6]
16 477 ms * 479 ms www.iinet.net.au [203.173.50.151]

Trace complete.


Seeming most likely that all traffic to Australia eventually gets there via the San Jose.

So my question again....

Is there latency to Australia with every ISP in South Africa (it is the same with Mweb)? Is it as simple as we don't have a direct connection to them?

Okay, go... discuss :-P

Thanks
Malooga

[Sinbad]

No direct connection would be correct. Most of our connectivity goes through europe. From there it's anyone's guess which way it goes around.

[Malooga]

ahh, first world problems :-)

Thanks for the quick reply Sinbad.

[AfriMan]

The theory of "no direct connection" seems to make sense, as traffic would have to be routed either via the UK or the US, on existing cable infrastructure.

I've logged a request with our network engineers to tell us how the traffic is currently routed and if this trace route is normal. We should have an answer very soon.

[Malooga]

Hey Afriman,

Epic! thanks very much :-)

Looking forward to the response from your network team.

[warwickw]

Can an admin or mod, move this to the correct forum please!

[Nerfherder]

Oz is the furthest possible location for us to connect to (and travel to)

So ye.... going to be the worst latency

[The_Librarian]

Ook toiled blood, sweat and tears to get this thread moved to the correct subforum.

You owe the Ookmod a pair of slippers and a comfortable chair.

[Tinuva]

Hi Guys,

My very first post :-P

I slightly new to South African internet, so I'm wondering....

Is there latency to Australia with every ISP in South Africa? Is it as simple as we don't have a direct connection to them?

as per my traceroute below..

C:\Users\Chris-home>tracert www.whirlpool.net.au

Tracing route to www.whirlpool.net.au [117.53.171.171]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms login.router [10.0.0.2]
2 8 ms 7 ms 9 ms 196-210-201-1.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.201.1]
3 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 196.38.72.125
4 14 ms 9 ms 10 ms 196.35.115.136
5 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms core2b-ctn-gi0-2.ip.isnet.net [168.209.6.3]
6 251 ms 248 ms 248 ms 168.209.100.81
7 264 ms 252 ms 252 ms 168.209.245.2
8 253 ms 251 ms 248 ms nyiix.he.net [198.32.160.61]
9 248 ms 246 ms 248 ms 10gigabitethernet6-2.core1.nyc4.he.net [72.52.92.49]
10 323 ms 321 ms 320 ms 10gigabitethernet10-1.core1.sjc2.he.net [184.105.213.173]
11 312 ms 319 ms 337 ms 10gigabitethernet1-4.core1.sjc1.he.net [72.52.92.117]
12 319 ms 320 ms 318 ms vocus.gigabitethernet2-13.core1.sjc1.he.net [64.71.184.46]
13 479 ms 478 ms 478 ms pos-0-0-1.cor02.syd03.nsw.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.199.47]
14 481 ms 476 ms 475 ms ip-203.192.31.114.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.192.203]
15 469 ms 467 ms 466 ms ge-0-0-2.bdr01.syd01.nsw.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.192.36]
16 494 ms 482 ms 475 ms Gi0-0-3-692-0.bdr01.syd07.aunsw.bltprf.net [119.161.90.162]
17 480 ms 475 ms 477 ms www.whirlpool.net.au [117.53.171.171]

Trace complete.

Looks like the connection goes to New York, then San Jose, then only makes a turn towards Australia and because it has to travel that distance the latency would be high... But what I can explain is the huge jump in latency between hope 5 and 6.

Another one...


C:\Users\Chris-home>tracert www.iinet.net.au

Tracing route to www.iinet.net.au [203.173.50.151]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 12 ms 5 ms 3 ms login.router [10.0.0.2]
2 8 ms 7 ms 9 ms 196-210-201-1.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.201.1]
3 19 ms 23 ms 26 ms cdsl1-ctn-vl2173.ip.isnet.net [196.38.72.113]
4 14 ms 17 ms 17 ms 196.35.115.128
5 9 ms 12 ms 13 ms core1b-ctn-gi0-2.ip.isnet.net [168.209.6.4]
6 165 ms 170 ms 175 ms 168.209.246.1
7 162 ms 163 ms 161 ms linx.internode.on.net [195.66.225.96]
8 317 ms 320 ms 320 ms te0-3-0.bdr1.iad1.internode.on.net [203.16.211.33]
9 335 ms 315 ms 329 ms gi0-0-0.bdr1.lax1.internode.on.net [203.16.213.185]
10 311 ms 311 ms 311 ms te4-0-0.bdr1.sjc2.internode.on.net [203.16.213.149]
11 504 ms 509 ms 493 ms xe-0-1-3.syd-ult-core1.iinet.net.au [203.16.213.166]
12 533 ms 527 ms 480 ms ae0.syd-mas-core1.iinet.net.au [203.215.20.111]
13 477 ms 476 ms 483 ms te1-0-0.per-qv1-bdr2.iinet.net.au [203.215.20.69]
14 476 ms 476 ms 481 ms te1-0-1-113.per-qv1-bdr1.iinet.net.au [203.215.4.40]
15 490 ms * 476 ms gi5-1.icp-osb-core1.iinet.net.au [203.215.4.6]
16 477 ms * 479 ms www.iinet.net.au [203.173.50.151]

Trace complete.


Seeming most likely that all traffic to Australia eventually gets there via the San Jose.

So my question again....

Is there latency to Australia with every ISP in South Africa (it is the same with Mweb)? Is it as simple as we don't have a direct connection to them?

Okay, go... discuss :-P

Thanks
Malooga

These traces actually look fine.

The latency between hop 5 and 6 is because that is going from Cape Town to New York in the first trace, and Cape Town to London in the 2nd trace.

As for traffic going via the US to Australia, you can expect that on all ISPs except maybe Telkom, who is the only ISP I am aware of making use of SAFE which first goes to Honk Kong.

Traceroute over Telkom/SAIX from Pretoria, going via Hong Kong: (Seems to be at least 100ms lower.

tpr-route-server>traceroute www.whirlpool.net.au
Translating "www.whirlpool.net.au"...domain server (196.43.45.190) (196.43.50.190)

Translating "www.whirlpool.net.au"...domain server (196.43.45.190) [OK]

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to www.whirlpool.net.au (117.53.171.171)

  1 tpr-ip-esr-1-fe-1-0-3.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.25.9.45) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
  2 hkg-ip-dir-hongkong-pos-4-0-2.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.43.9.6) 156 msec 152 msec 156 msec
  3 ge13-42.br01.hkg04.pccwbtn.net (63.218.2.201) 336 msec 368 msec 332 msec
  4 63-218-214-22.static.pccwglobal.net (63.218.213.22) [AS 3491] 388 msec 388 msec 400 msec
  5 pos-0-1-0.bdr02.per02.wa.VOCUS.net.au (114.31.206.46) [AS 4826] [MPLS: Label 28 Exp 0] 392 msec 428 msec 404 msec
  6 ten-0-2-0-7.cor03.syd03.nsw.VOCUS.net.au (114.31.206.126) [AS 4826] [MPLS: Label 16097 Exp 0] 384 msec 384 msec 384 msec
  7 ten-1-3-0.cor01.syd03.nsw.VOCUS.net.au (114.31.192.86) [AS 4826] [MPLS: Label 23 Exp 0] 384 msec 388 msec 384 msec
  8 ten-0-2-0.bdr01.syd01.nsw.VOCUS.net.au (114.31.192.57) [AS 4826] 388 msec 388 msec 388 msec
  9 Gi0-0-3-692-0.bdr01.syd07.aunsw.bltprf.net (119.161.90.162) [AS 4826] 384 msec 388 msec 384 msec
 10  *  *  *
 11  *  *  *
 12  *  *  *

Trace 2, seems this one goes via San Jose too, but with much worse latency. So Telkom is a miss/hit for proper routing to Australia.

tpr-route-server>traceroute 203.173.50.151

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to www.iinet.net.au (203.173.50.151)

  1 tpr-ip-esr-1-fe-1-0-3.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.25.9.45) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
  2 ams-ip-hsll-1-gig-0-1-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.43.9.82) 212 msec 212 msec 212 msec
  3 165-240-60-90.packetexchange.net (92.60.240.165) 216 msec 220 msec 212 msec
  4 69.174.120.225 [AS 25973] 352 msec 352 msec 360 msec
  5 gi0-2.bdr1.lax1.internode.on.net (206.223.123.118) [AS 25973] 364 msec 360 msec
    internode.any2ix.coresite.com (206.223.143.99) [AS 25973] 364 msec
  6 te4-0-0.bdr1.sjc2.internode.on.net (203.16.213.149) [AS 4739] 356 msec 360 msec 360 msec
  7 xe-0-1-3.syd-ult-core1.iinet.net.au (203.16.213.166) [AS 4739] 536 msec 536 msec 536 msec
  8 ae0.syd-mas-core1.iinet.net.au (203.215.20.111) [AS 4802] [MPLS: Label 435808 Exp 1] 596 msec 588 msec 600 msec
  9 te1-0-0.per-qv1-bdr2.iinet.net.au (203.215.20.69) [AS 4802] 596 msec 596 msec 588 msec
 10 te1-0-1-113.per-qv1-bdr1.iinet.net.au (203.215.4.40) [AS 4802] 588 msec 592 msec 592 msec
 11  *  *  *
 12  *  *  *

Telkom's IPv6 doesn't seem much better on this one:

tpr-route-server>traceroute www.iinet.net.au

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to www.iinet.net.au (2001:4478:1310:1FFF:203:173:50:151)

  1 2001:4208:100::12 28 msec 24 msec 24 msec
  2 2001:470:1F0C:8::1 272 msec 272 msec 272 msec
  3 2001:470:0:40::2 280 msec 272 msec 272 msec
  4 2001:470:0:1B5::2 288 msec 288 msec 284 msec
  5 2001:470:0:1B6::1 320 msec 332 msec 324 msec
  6 2001:470:0:258::1 340 msec 336 msec 336 msec
  7 2001:470:0:24A::2 348 msec 348 msec 352 msec
  8 2001:504:13::13 348 msec 352 msec 352 msec
  9 2001:44B8:F020:3::1 356 msec 356 msec 396 msec
 10 2001:44B8:F020:5::2 540 msec 544 msec 580 msec
 11 2001:4478:1900:13::2 592 msec 596 msec
    2001:4478:1900:42::2 592 msec
 12 2001:4478:1300:23::2 588 msec 588 msec 588 msec
 13 www.iinet.net.au (2001:4478:1310:1FFF:203:173:50:151) 592 msec 592 msec 588 msec

[Pavan]

The theory of "no direct connection" seems to make sense, as traffic would have to be routed either via the UK or the US, on existing cable infrastructure.

I've logged a request with our network engineers to tell us how the traffic is currently routed and if this trace route is normal. We should have an answer very soon.

Wouldn't SA -> India -> Aus be better?

[Pavan]

Assuming you have access to the correct cable systems which have demarkation points in SA...

Routing to the UK or US seems like an archaic approach to reach Aus...

[Pavan]

And if I'm not mistaken, doesn't SAFE makes its way over to Malaysia? (short hop to Aus from there).

[Tinuva]

Wouldn't SA -> India -> Aus be better?

Not a bad idea actually. I don't have access to do traceroutes on the Neotel network, but those who do could possibly paste a trace.

[Big Bean]

I have provided 3 different Backbones except IS which you are using
Looks as if SAIX is the best, This is likly due to them using SAFE
SAIX [TelkomSA]:
Tracing route to www.whirlpool.net.au [117.53.171.171]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 25 ms 29 ms 29 ms
2 110 ms 30 ms 29 ms wblv-ip-cat-1-vlan-913.telkom-ipnet.co.za [196.4
3.35.38]
3 27 ms 30 ms 28 ms wblv-ip-esr-3-gig-6-1-0-914.telkom-ipnet.co.za [
196.43.35.33]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 49 ms 47 ms 49 ms 196.43.10.130
6 46 ms 92 ms 50 ms rrba-ip-lir-1-gig-2-0-0-201.telkom-ipnet.co.za [
196.43.33.5]
7 204 ms 200 ms 212 ms hkg-ip-dir-hongkong-pos-4-0-2.telkom-ipnet.co.za
[196.43.9.6]
8 245 ms 269 ms 273 ms ge13-2.br01.hkg04.pccwbtn.net [63.218.115.109]
9 474 ms 469 ms 470 ms 63-218-214-22.static.pccwglobal.net [63.218.213.
22]
10 449 ms 445 ms 435 ms pos-0-1-0.bdr02.per02.wa.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.20
6.46]
11 440 ms 436 ms 439 ms ten-0-2-0-7.cor03.syd03.nsw.VOCUS.net.au [114.31
.206.126]
12 457 ms 472 ms 478 ms ten-1-3-0.cor01.syd03.nsw.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.1
92.86]
13 439 ms 438 ms 464 ms ten-0-2-0.bdr01.syd01.nsw.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.1
92.57]
14 373 ms 372 ms 383 ms Gi0-0-3-692-0.bdr01.syd07.aunsw.bltprf.net [119.
161.90.162]
15 344 ms 329 ms 338 ms 171-171-53-117.rev.bulletproof.net [117.53.171.1
71]

Trace complete.

WebAfrica:
Tracing route to www.whirlpool.net.au [117.53.171.171]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 25 ms 19 ms 20 ms
2 27 ms 27 ms 19 ms wnls-ipc1-vl-105.wa.co.za [196.220.59.250]
3 27 ms 23 ms 31 ms wnls-cr2-vl-801.wa.co.za [41.185.0.66]
4 21 ms 51 ms 30 ms 41-66-150-177-b1.WC-RO-DCE-2-to-WEB001-CPE.afric
ainx.net [41.66.150.177]
5 178 ms 212 ms 173 ms CORE_GB-LD-TE-DCE-1_TO_GB-LD-GS-DCE-1_AINX_P2P__
1G_gb [41.84.12.142]
6 208 ms 176 ms 178 ms 10gigabitethernet1-1.core1.lon1.he.net [195.66.2
24.21]
7 246 ms 251 ms 260 ms 10gigabitethernet7-4.core1.nyc4.he.net [72.52.92
.241]
8 313 ms 327 ms 316 ms 10gigabitethernet10-2.core1.sjc2.he.net [184.105
.213.197]
9 324 ms 342 ms 313 ms 10gigabitethernet1-4.core1.sjc1.he.net [72.52.92
.117]
10 343 ms 328 ms 328 ms vocus.gigabitethernet2-13.core1.sjc1.he.net [64.
71.184.46]
11 475 ms 478 ms 500 ms pos-0-0-1.cor02.syd03.nsw.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.1
99.47]
12 497 ms 470 ms 479 ms ip-120.72.45.175.VOCUS.net.au [175.45.72.120]
13 477 ms 472 ms 480 ms ten-1-3-0.cor01.syd03.nsw.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.1
92.86]
14 474 ms 469 ms 469 ms ten-0-2-0.bdr01.syd01.nsw.VOCUS.net.au [114.31.1
92.57]
15 477 ms 489 ms 467 ms Gi0-0-3-692-0.bdr01.syd07.aunsw.bltprf.net [119.
161.90.162]
16 518 ms 470 ms 543 ms 171-171-53-117.rev.bulletproof.net [117.53.171.1
71]

Trace complete.

Cybersmart:
Tracing route to www.whirlpool.net.au [117.53.171.171]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 25 ms 19 ms 19 ms
2 29 ms 29 ms 28 ms ct1-ipc-up.cybersmart.co.za [196.6.121.38]
3 50 ms 41 ms 38 ms ct5-vlan196.cybersmart.co.za [196.41.96.235]
4 211 ms 253 ms 199 ms 217.78.90.21
5 * 238 ms 208 ms 217.78.88.37
6 207 ms 200 ms 212 ms gi-0-3-0-1-63.r02.londen03.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [21
3.130.48.1]
7 214 ms 211 ms 211 ms ae-4.r22.londen03.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.5.2
4]
8 293 ms 279 ms 280 ms as-0.r22.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.3.2
54]
9 271 ms 273 ms 299 ms ae-2.r06.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.4.1
75]
10 286 ms 268 ms 315 ms 0.xe-11-3-0.BR3.NYC4.ALTER.NET [204.255.168.65]

11 282 ms 279 ms 321 ms 0.ae3.XT1.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.16.182]
12 361 ms 364 ms 354 ms 0.xe-3-2-0.IL4.SAC1.Alter.net [152.63.51.174]
13 369 ms 376 ms 355 ms 0.ge-7-0-0.IL1.SAC2.ALTER.NET [152.63.48.110]
14 501 ms 516 ms 494 ms 0.ge-7-1-0.XT3.SYD2.Alter.Net [210.80.34.58]
15 515 ms 513 ms 519 ms 0.gigabitethernet6-0-0.GW11.SYD2.Alter.Net [210.
80.34.190]
16 509 ms 506 ms 502 ms bulletproof-gw.customer.alter.net [203.166.43.78
]
17 518 ms 500 ms 513 ms 171-171-53-117.rev.bulletproof.net [117.53.171.1
71]

Trace complete.

[AfriMan]

Our network engineers have confirmed that we route to Australia via New York, so latencies are unfortunately higher than US or UK based sites.