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Thread: Islamic calls for for Slavery's Legalization

  1. #16

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    Hi guys I must apologise for the headline, it should have been Wahhabi/Islam as they were the group I was commenting on.

    They seem to be one of the faster growing groups within Islam especially when it comes to gaining new coverts in Europe and America.

    They also seem to be the most fanatical

    Wahhabism and Wahhabi Islam: How Wahhabi Islam Differs from Sunni, Shia Islam
    Too many critics of Islam, including atheists, fail to appreciate just how diverse and varied Islam can be. There are things you can say that apply to all or most Muslims, as is the case with Christianity, but there are many more things which only apply to some or a few Muslims. This is especially true when it comes to Muslim extremism because Wahhabi Islam, the primary religious movement behind extremist Islam, includes beliefs and doctrines not found elsewhere.
    It would be a mistake and unethical to criticize all of Islam on the basis of doctrines particular to Wahhabi Muslims. Modern Islamic extremism and terrorism simply cannot be explained or understood without looking at the history and influence of Wahhabi Islam. This means that it's important from an ethical and an academic perspective to understand what Wahhabi Islam teaches, what's so dangerous about it, and why those teachings differ from other branches of Islam.
    Origins of Wahhabi Islam
    Name: Wahhabism, Wahhabi Islam
    Founder: Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab
    Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1792) was the first modern Islamic fundamentalist and extremists. Wahhab made the central point of his reform movement the principle that absolutely every idea added to Islam after the third century of the Mulsim era (about 950 CE) was false and should be eliminated. Muslims, in order to be true Muslims, must adhere solely and strictly to the original beliefs set forth by Muhammad.
    The reason for this extremist stance, and the focus of Wahhab's reform efforts, was a number of popular practices which he believed represented a regression to pre-Islamic polytheism. These included praying to saints, making pilgrimages to tombs and special mosques, venerating trees, caves, and stones, and using votive and sacrificial offerings.
    These are all practices commonly and traditionally associated with religions, but they were unacceptable to Wahhab. Contemporary secular behaviors are even more anathema to Wahhab's successors. It is against modernity, secularism, and the Enlightenment which current Wahhabists do battle — and it is this anti-secularism, anti-modernism which helps drive their extremism, even to the point of violence.

    Wahhabi Doctrines
    In contrast to popular superstitions, Wahhab emphasized the unity of God (tawhid). This focus on absolute monotheism lead to him and his followers being referred to as muwahiddun, or “unitarians.” Everything else he denounced as heretical innovation, or bida. Wahhab was further dismayed at the widespread laxity in adhering to traditional Islamic laws: questionable practices like the ones above were allowed to continue, whereas the religious devotions which Islam did require were being ignored
    This created indifference to the plight of widows and orphans, adultery, lack of attention to obligatory prayers, and failure to allocate shares of inheritance fairly to women. Wahhab characterized all this as being typical of jahiliyya, an important term in Islam which refers to the barbarism and state of ignorance which existed prior to the coming of Islam. Wahhab thus identified himself with the Prophet Muhammad and at the same time connected his society with what Muhammad worked to overthrow.
    Because so many Muslims lived (so he claimed) in jahiliyya, al-Wahhab accused them of not being true Muslims after all. Only those who followed the strict teachings of al-Wahhab were truly Muslims because only they still followed the path laid out by Allah. Accusing someone of not being a true Muslim is significant because it is forbidden for one Muslim to kill another; but if someone is not a true Muslim then killing them (in war or in an act of terrorism) becomes licit. It would be hard to underestimate the importance of this principle to modern terrorists and extremists.
    Obviously, Wahhabi religious leaders reject any reinterpretation of the Qur’an when it comes to issues settled by the earliest Muslims. Wahhabists thus oppose the 19th and 20th century Muslim reform movements which reinterpreted aspects of Islamic law in order to bring it closer to standards set by the West, particularly with regards to topics like gender relations, family law, personal autonomy, and participatory democracy.

    Wahhabi Islam & Extremist Islam Today
    Today, Wahhabism is the dominant Islamic tradition on the Arabian peninsula, though its influence is minor in the rest of the Middle East. Because Osama bin Laden comes from Saudi Arabia and is Wahhabi himself, Wahhabi extremism and radical ideas of purity have obviously influenced him considerably. Adherents of Wahhabi Islam do not regard it as simply one school of thought out of many; rather it is the only path of true Islam — nothing else counts.
    Even though Wahhabism is a minority position overall in the Muslim world, it has nevertheless been influential for other extremist movements throughout the Middle East. This can be seen with a couple of factors, first of which is al-Wahhab’s use of the term jahiliyya to vilify a society which he does not consider pure enough, whether they call themselves Muslim or not. Even today, Islamists use the term when referring to the West and at times even to their own societies. With it, they can justify overthrowing what many might regard as an Islamic state by essentially denying that it is truly Islamic at all.
    http://atheism.about.com/od/islamicsects/a/wahhabi.htm

  2. #17
    Super Grandmaster Nerfherder's Avatar
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    The thread title is fine.

    If you read it like I read it then its (Some guys who are) Islamic called for the legalization of slavery.

    We all know that Islam doesn't have a single voice, so its ok for people to refer to individuals as Islamists
    "What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." ~ Christopher Hitchens

  3. #18
    Super Grandmaster porchrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R/SGT View Post
    Hi guys I must apologise for the headline, it should have been Wahhabi/Islam as they were the group I was commenting on.

    They seem to be one of the faster growing groups within Islam especially when it comes to gaining new coverts in Europe and America.

    They also seem to be the most fanatical
    No problem with the title. If Catholics were calling for something I would have no problem with a headline saying "Christian Call for XYZ".
    The box said "requires Windows7 or better" so I installed Linux.

  4. #19

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    Thanks

    Getting back on track, does it not worry our Muslim members how fast Wahhabi is spreading especially since it seems to be backed by the Saudis, who have the money and power to do so?

    Actually looking at this I would be more worried about the Saudis than the Iranians

    Interesting site, don’t know about its validity

    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Slavery

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNERGY View Post
    Its a small percentage of the total muslim population. Not everyone in Saudi are wahabists.
    As stated above, less then 4%.
    Isnt that about the same as the percentage of white people in South Africa?

    Its not as small as you think.

    I dont know you why Muslims hate to be reminded that a lot of Muslim countries practice what they call "extremist" ideologies. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc, are all renowned for how they abuse women and punish apostasy by death. Yet somehow such actions are still only performed by a "minority". Obviously several large countries are still small enough to count as a "minority".

  6. #21
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    I guess the question on everyone mind is so with all the division in Islam which how would we know which group to follow, clearly all of them cant be right ?
    consider

    "Hadith 1 The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said "The Jews split into 71 groups; one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 groups; 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose Power is the life of Muhammad, without doubt, my Ummah will be divided into 73 groups. Only one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell."

    When asked which group will be on the right path, the holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) replied, "The main (al-Jama'ah) body of the Muslims." [Ibne Majah Kitab al-Fitan]

    Hadith 2. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " There was disagreement amongst Jews and they split into 72 groups. In exactly the same way, there will be disagreement and divisions in my Ummah. It will split into 73 groups. Apart from one of those groups, all the remaining 72 will be thrown into Hell."

    When asked which group will be on the right path, the holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) replied, "The group on the right path, which will enter Paradise, will be the group which follows my Sunna and that of my Sahaba and this will be the largest group of Muslims." [Tirmizi, Imam Ahmad, Abu Daud, Mishkat]

    Hadith 3. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said "Without doubt my Ummah will never be gathered in misguidance. Whenever you see disagreement, then hold fast to the Sawad-e-Azam (the great majority)" [Ibne Majah]

    Hadith 4. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " Follow the way of the largest group of Muslims! For, he who deviates from this group will be thrown into Hell!" [Ibne Majah]

    Hadith 5. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said "The devil continually pursues humans as a wolf pursues sheep. The wolf only dares to attack those sheep which have separated from the rest of the flock and are standing alone. And so, my followers and my devotees! Save yourselves from being caught in the traps of misguidance and firmly remain with the largest and most well known group of Muslims!" [ Imam Ahmed]

    Hadith 6. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs. Allah's mercy, blessings and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell." [ Tirmizi]

    Hadith 7. The holy Prophet(Sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said " He who deviates from the largest group of Muslims, even as much as a hand span, has himself cut off his connection with Islam." [Abu Daud, Imam Ahmed]
    Sunni Islam is by far the largest group,
    The last one being very important regarding the Wahabi sect, although they form their bases from Sunni Islam, their views of such nature that they have branched off completely and can no longer be considered Sunni
    Every teaching of Islam is a manifestation of Divine mercy, and any understanding of Islam that lacks mercy, lacks understanding,
    T. Winter

  7. #22
    Super Grandmaster porchrat's Avatar
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    Schit man argumentum ad populum is built into the religion!

    Now that is embarrassing.
    The box said "requires Windows7 or better" so I installed Linux.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mineer View Post
    I guess the question on everyone mind is so with all the division in Islam which how would we know which group to follow, clearly all of them cant be right ?
    consider

    Sunni Islam is by far the largest group,
    The last one being very important regarding the Wahabi sect, although they form their bases from Sunni Islam, their views of such nature that they have branched off completely and can no longer be considered Sunni
    Unfortunately that is how you look at it, they dont see it that way and see all other Muslims as having strayed from the true path of Islam, I am sure that they can also find passages to support their views.

    But that doesn’t answer my question regarding the spread and growth of Wahabi.

    Also Wahabi seems to becoming the face of Islam to the rest of the world due to the news that they generate through their actions

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancalagon View Post
    Isnt that about the same as the percentage of white people in South Africa?

    Its not as small as you think.

    I dont know you why Muslims hate to be reminded that a lot of Muslim countries practice what they call "extremist" ideologies. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc, are all renowned for how they abuse women and punish apostasy by death. Yet somehow such actions are still only performed by a "minority". Obviously several large countries are still small enough to count as a "minority".
    South Africa's population: 50,586,757 (50 Million) (Source: World Bank)
    World Muslim Population: 2,200,000,000 (2.2 Billion) (Source: http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/01/27/...ation-doubles/)

    Such countries are slowly improving their human rights.
    Also not everyone in those countries are extremist. Its very easy to paint everyone with a brush. I have been to many of those countries, majority of the population are not extremists.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by R/SGT View Post
    Unfortunately that is how you look at it, they dont see it that way and see all other Muslims as having strayed from the true path of Islam, I am sure that they can also find passages to support their views.

    But that doesn’t answer my question regarding the spread and growth of Wahabi.

    Also Wahabi seems to becoming the face of Islam to the rest of the world due to the news that they generate through their actions
    Sensationalism creates/gets media attention Wahhabi gets alot of air time due to their actions, so the media face of Islam yes, but your point is dutifully noted, we need to some how capture the media attention and thus the attention of the non-muslim that this wahabi sect does not reflect the views of the general Islamic view point.
    Every teaching of Islam is a manifestation of Divine mercy, and any understanding of Islam that lacks mercy, lacks understanding,
    T. Winter

  11. #26
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    Just a question, how does something recorded in 2003 make news in 2012

    Author of Saudi Curriculums Advocates Slavery
    Washington)… November 7, 2003 …The main author of the Saudi religious curr

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanTech View Post
    Just a question, how does something recorded in 2003 make news in 2012
    Its not news that is why it is in PD, as for 2012

    June 6, 2011 update: Another endorsement of sex slavery, this time from a female. Raymond Ibrahim tells the story of Salwa al-Mutairi, a Kuwaiti former parliamentary candidate, who seeks to "revive the institution of sex-slavery." She

    begins by insisting that "it's of course true" that "the prophet of Islam legitimized sex-slavery." She recounts how when she was in Mecca, Islam's holiest city, she asked various sheikhs and muftis (learned, authoritative Muslims) about the legality of sex-slavery according to Sharia: they all confirmed it to be perfectly legal; Kuwaiti ulema further pointed out that extra "virile" men—Western synonymous include "sex-crazed," "lecherous," "perverted"—would do well to purchase sex-slaves to sate their appetites without sinning.

    Ibrahim quotes a portion of her taped speech on rules governing sex-slaves who must be at least 15 years-old:

    A Muslim state must [first] attack a Christian state—sorry, I mean any non-Muslim state—and they [the women, the future sex-slaves] must be captives of the raid. Is this forbidden? Not at all; according to Islam, sex slaves are not at all forbidden. Quite the contrary, the rules regulating sex-slaves differ from those for free women [i.e., Muslim women]: the latter's body must be covered entirely, except for her face and hands, whereas the sex-slave is kept naked from the bellybutton on up—she is different from the free woman; the free woman has to be married properly to her husband, but the sex-slave—he just buys her and that's that.

    Mutairi then gives an example from the war in Chechnya: "Surely there are female Russian captives. So go and buy those and sell them here in Kuwait; better that than have our men engage in forbidden sexual relations. I don't see any problem in this, no problem at all." She invokes Harun ar-Rashid, the Abbasid caliph, as an exemplar of male virtue: "The greatest example we have is Harun al-Rashid: when he died, he had 2,000 sex slaves—so it's okay, nothing wrong with it." Mutairi concludes with a supplication to God: "Oh I truly wish this for Kuwait, Allah willing—Oh Lord, Lord, you are bountiful." June 22, 2011 update: More on this subject can be found here.

    July 5, 2012 update: Raymond Ibrahim returns to this topic at "Egypt's Sex-Slave Marriage," where he tells about the country's "first sex-slave marriage" having been contracted within days after the Muslim Brotherhood's Mohamed Morsi becoming president. It involves a man, one Abd al-Rauf Awn, publicly "marrying" his "slave." See Ibrahim's piece for the details.
    http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2003...s-for-slaverys
    The focus of this discussion has shifted more to the Wahhabi sect anyway

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mineer View Post
    Sensationalism creates/gets media attention Wahhabi gets alot of air time due to their actions, so the media face of Islam yes, but your point is dutifully noted, we need to some how capture the media attention and thus the attention of the non-muslim that this wahabi sect does not reflect the views of the general Islamic view point.
    What do you think about the expanding influence of the Saudi Wahhabi movement amongst muslims in the western world especially new converts, this ties in with the earlier topic regarding the construction of mosques by the Saudis around the world.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by porchrat View Post
    Schit man argumentum ad populum is built into the religion!

    Now that is embarrassing.
    I thought you might bring up argumentum ad populum, but it does make the simpler and easier for the laymen who could be easily be influenced by some person posing as a learned person, telling him/her this is the true version of Islam, is not nice just to have a simple equation to figure out which is the best sect to be in.
    Every teaching of Islam is a manifestation of Divine mercy, and any understanding of Islam that lacks mercy, lacks understanding,
    T. Winter

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mineer View Post
    I thought you might bring up argumentum ad populum, but it does make the simpler and easier for the laymen who could be easily be influenced by some person posing as a learned person, telling him/her this is the true version of Islam, is not nice just to have a simple equation to figure out which is the best sect to be in.
    Doesn't really change the fallacy.

    I mean... if this other sect becomes the biggest you are going to have to admit that it is right and move over to it just because you are told to instead of actually analysing critically what it is you are switching to.
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