Vodacom vs RIM on BlackBerry overbilling problems: who is to blame?

[jannievanzyl]

Explain Whatsapp which only uses BIS

Maybe ask the sub that ran up a R1700 bill when his WhatsApp decided to not only use the internet APN but managed to generate 2GB of data in 2 days if he agrees with you.

[jannievanzyl]

Yes you do... your crystal ball is revealing the following... conservatively...

(2.4 million BB users) x (whatever the avr. overbilling is per user) = a handsome extra amount in the pocket.

Just put the extra question in the contract form and all is resolved. Even better, for those that already have a BIS based contract, send them an SMS, asking "Do you want to allow 3rd party applications to use the internet apn, which will incur extra charges... blah blah blah...", they can simply respond no/yes... and again current customers are informed, and future customers too, will be informed. Simple!

The question in the contract is a good idea and might well be there. But the vast majority of BIS buyers don't buy it that way. They do so over USSD and they are referred to the Internet T&C's where it clearly does state this.

[burn]

I had the customer in my office and we traced it.

How would we know an app is 'rogue' in the first place so to warn proactivly? I unfortunately don't have a crystal ball.

You had a customer in your office, not the customer who complained in the thread above. Are you assuming all users are on the same phone and using the same app or version of the app that the customer you had in your office was using? Therefore dismissing all other complaints as a result of the same issue.

You claim you can't track a rogue app but your billing system clearly can (I know that the billing system just sees data and charges but I couldn't resist ).

[BGE]

The question in the contract is a good idea and might well be there. But the vast majority of BIS buyers don't buy it that way. They do so over USSD and they are referred to the Internet T&C's where it clearly does state this.

Jannie, again another wobbly skirt-the-issue answer... which one does Vodacom value more, protecting the subscriber from the OOB shark or looking after VC's profits... yip that's right it can only be one!

Putting something that affects a contracts pricing, the way this could and often does, doesn't belong in pages of small print.

Empower the user the make the decision... else you are just being dishonest!

[cbrunsdonza]

But what colour is the lightsaber?

[BGE]

The APN selection is done INSIDE the application. You don't see it, nor can you control it. Nor can Vodacom.

Oh yes you can1 WhatsApp, for example, allows you to set the desired apn.

[DA-LION-619]

You're wrong, but it's irrelevant in any case.


You're wrong

One of the apps that actually warn you. Which is the correct way to do this.

The real question should be why do the other aps not warn you?

That's a stupid question! Also didn't Vodacom change their BIS system due to the abuse which was of little help which only seems to of made it worse with problems like these and its not Irrelevant you cannot run two different APN's at the same time as apps like BBM would not function.

[DA-LION-619]

Maybe ask the sub that ran up a R1700 bill when his WhatsApp decided to not only use the internet APN but managed to generate 2GB of data in 2 days if he agrees with you.

Whose fault was that ?
I just tried and Whatsapp would not send a message would out BIS, don't forget Whatsapp needs BIS to activate on start-up and when I specify BIS I mean the internet service which also works over wifi not Vodacom's network.

[Pada]

Whose fault was that ?
I just tried and Whatsapp would not send a message would out BIS, don't forget Whatsapp needs BIS to activate on start-up and when I specify BIS I mean the internet service which also works over wifi not Vodacom's network.

I would assume that WhatsApp would only require BIS on the very first startup/registration to get hold of the phone's push-id.

I'm pretty sure the users on MTN & the other mobile networks are having the same kind of issues...

[marine1]

I am clearly not understanding this. If BIS is a VPN or tunnel how then can any software bypass it unless they automatically insert their OWN APN which they have not.
Sorry I would like someone to explain that to me.
Yes I have seen certain programs change your APN but if your APN remains blackberry then I call BS

[jannievanzyl]

I am clearly not understanding this. If BIS is a VPN or tunnel how then can any software bypass it unless they automatically insert their OWN APN which they have not.
Sorry I would like someone to explain that to me.
Yes I have seen certain programs change your APN but if your APN remains blackberry then I call BS

I'll phone you and explain.

[MickeyD]

I'll phone you and explain.

... en teken prentjies vir die res!

[Kosmik]

I'll add a coment,as I've developed corporate apps for the BB. Jan is correct that the develeloper can choose where to direct their traffic and the default is BIS. The dev can specify failover option to the default network apn if Bis is not available but good practice is that you code the switch option. In theory however if your device has no knowledge of the network apn, it cannot route traffic that way.

Not defending VC as I've never had billing issues but I'm on MTN and use a lot of common apps ( browsing, fb, twitter, social feeds etc ) which as far as I'm aware are all BIS enabled. I have also blocked the normal internet apn, although apps like youtube can still get through if asked ok, so there must be a default path that can be activated.

Just my 2c on the dev and route thing.

[marine1]

I'll add a coment,as I've developed corporate apps for the BB. Jan is correct that the develeloper can choose where to direct their traffic and the default is BIS. The dev can specify failover option to the default network apn if Bis is not available but good practice is that you code the switch option. In theory however if your device has no knowledge of the network apn, it cannot route traffic that way.

Not defending VC as I've never had billing issues but I'm on MTN and use a lot of common apps ( browsing, fb, twitter, social feeds etc ) which as far as I'm aware are all BIS enabled. I have also blocked the normal internet apn, although apps like youtube can still get through if asked ok, so there must be a default path that can be activated.

Just my 2c on the dev and route thing.

Ok so please explain to me in layman terms, in the APN there is blackberry.net for example.
How then can any app bypass this without actually inputting their own APN?
I have seen before where an app actually inputs their own APN like for eg "marine.net"

What I am trying to understand is if the APN has not been changed then what you are telling me is Blackberry have a flaw on their software? IMO a huge security flaw....

FFS I am just so sick and tired of having to watch every company and every product you buy

[jannievanzyl]

Ok so please explain to me in layman terms, in the APN there is blackberry.net for example.
How then can any app bypass this without actually inputting their own APN?
I have seen before where an app actually inputs their own APN like for eg "marine.net"

What I am trying to understand is if the APN has not been changed then what you are telling me is Blackberry have a flaw on their software? IMO a huge security flaw....

FFS I am just so sick and tired of having to watch every company and every product you buy

Answer your phone, dammit!