PHP framework for a Noob to build a website?

[eitai2001]

Hi Guys.

I have decided to start attempting to develop one of my website ideas.
I have also decided, the best way for me to do this is to use a framework.

The only issue, I have never developed in any framework before (closest was editing stuff for Magento built in Zend, but I never really quite understood what I was doing).

I recently watched some easy to understand video's on MVC, and they helped me to understand ... especially the Classes, Objects and Properties.

However, with that in mind ... I only have an ok knowledge of straight forward PHP and MySQL.

So what would be a good framework to start with that will meet the following:
a) Relatively easy to pick up, maybe with tutorials or something
b) Extremely scalable ... on the off-chance I make the next facebook (Hey ... stop laughing!!!), I don't want the website to turn into the computicket fiasco.

Two frameworks I'm leaning towards are either CakePHP2 or Symfony 2. I'm not sure if CakePHP is very scalable, but it looks a helluva lot easier. Symfony seems more complicated, but is highly scalable and good on performance (Huge websites such as Yahoo Answers, DailyMotion and YouPron use it).

So I'm asking you guys your opinion ... which will be the better framework for me to use. Keep in mind, I will learn to use it as I develop.

Regards

Itai

[Le^stat]

Symfony 2... is the one I went with. I'm in the same boat...

[eitai2001]

Symfony 2... is the one I went with. I'm in the same boat...

By same boat, you mean little PHP Dev experience? Have you ever dealt with an OOP architecture before? How are you finding it?

[debonair]

I would say try codeigniter its a very simple framework, then move on to symfony

[Le^stat]

By same boat, you mean little PHP Dev experience? Have you ever dealt with an OOP architecture before? How are you finding it?

It takes some getting use too... I still find myself wanting to code everything manually.
Understanding the OOP architecture is not too difficult...
The sum of my php dev experience is 1 module from UNISA...

[eitai2001]

I would say try codeigniter its a very simple framework, then move on to symfony

Yeah, that may be so ... but I don't want to have to rewrite the entire site again in a new framework ... and would rather choose one and stick to it, at least for a good while. Is codeigniter high performance and scalable?

It takes some getting use too... I still find myself wanting to code everything manually.
Understanding the OOP architecture is not too difficult...
The sum of my php dev experience is 1 module from UNISA...

What stuff do you find yourself wanting to code manually, and what did you do in that 1 module? ... I assume the basic PHP stuff, nothing like OOP?

You in Jhb? Maybe you can show me a bit :P ... what did you use to get started? That Jobeet tutorial ... did you start on version 1.4 or 2? Any screencasts you can recommend that helped you?

[EtienneK]

I found CakePHP the easiest to understand.

Also, you are going about this all wrong. Don't worry so much about scalability at the moment. First get a working prototype out there and then scale as necessary. There is no way for you to know what to scale now anyway (Your language or framework will almost never be the first bottleneck - your database will probably be the first thing to slow you down).

Always follow this simple rule when starting a new project:

Make it work; then make it right; then make it fast.

[Nerhzelok]

Yeah, that may be so ... but I don't want to have to rewrite the entire site again in a new framework ... and would rather choose one and stick to it, at least for a good while. Is codeigniter high performance and scalable?


What stuff do you find yourself wanting to code manually, and what did you do in that 1 module? ... I assume the basic PHP stuff, nothing like OOP?

You in Jhb? Maybe you can show me a bit :P ... what did you use to get started? That Jobeet tutorial ... did you start on version 1.4 or 2? Any screencasts you can recommend that helped you?

Codeigniter is ****ing awesome man.

Use eeeeeeeeettttttt.

[eitai2001]

I found CakePHP the easiest to understand.

Also, you are going about this all wrong. Don't worry so much about scalability at the moment. First get a working prototype out there and then scale as necessary. There is no way for you to know what to scale now anyway (Your language or framework will almost never be the first bottleneck - your database will probably be the first thing to slow you down).

Always follow this simple rule when starting a new project:

Make it work; then make it right; then make it fast.

Does that same principle still apply though, when you are targeting something at a largely public audience who will not give something a second glance?

Or do you mean, make it work on your test bed first ... then make it right and fast on your test bed?

Also, I've heard it is never a good idea to use one framework and then convert to another ... because of the difficulty and the possible issues involved to rewrite?
Hence, I'd rather build it into something powerful from the beginning ... so if I build it in symfony:
I will get it to work, then I will make it right ... and when the time comes, I will make it fast ... but without the need to change frameworks ... hence why I ask about scalability?

But ya, CakePHP seems a lot easier to pick up ... but if I do a search, besides the Mozilla Add-On page, I don't see anything popular built into it.

And yes, I do agree my first bottle neck will be the database, especially because I don't know the first thing about efficient database design, and especially when it comes to lot's of queries and items being added, and using Archiving and all sorts of stuff I read of once, but never knew how to use :P

[EtienneK]

Does that same principle still apply though, when you are targeting something at a largely public audience who will not give something a second glance?

My point is each of the main PHP frameworks (Zend, Symphony, CakePHP, Code Igniter, etc.) are very capable in their own right. Choose the one that you find the easiest to work with and build your application. Once the time comes to scale, I can almost promise you it won't matter much which one you've chose, because there will be other issues at play.

[eitai2001]

My point is, each of the main PHP frameworks (Zend, Symphony, CakePHP, Code Igniter, etc.) are very capable in their own right. Choose the one that you find the easiest to work with and build your application. Once the time comes to scale, I can almost promise you it won't matter much which one you've chose, because there will be other issues at play.

Cool, thanks ... I think I'll try my hand at Symfony then ... a lot of stuff I've read on the internet points to that.
Also, because apparently it's not simply an MVC architecture, but also has something else that has something to do specifically with the HTTP protocol and the way it works which apparently makes it faster ... but that went past my head when I read it :P

I guess I've made my own mind up :P

[EtienneK]

Cool, thanks ... I think I'll try my hand at Symfony then ... a lot of stuff I've read on the internet points to that.
Also, because apparently it's not simply an MVC architecture, but also has something else that has something to do specifically with the HTTP protocol and the way it works which apparently makes it faster ... but that went past my head when I read it :P

I guess I've made my own mind up :P

Good luck. And please let us know once you have something up. I'd be really interested in seeing if this thing ever even gets up and running...

[biometrics]

CodeIgniter. Lots of training videos to work through on their site.

[rrh]

I'm no PHP expert, so it might make sense to take my words with the proverbial pinch of salt ...

That said, yiiframework http://www.yiiframework.com/ appears to rate very highly.

See http://www.phpzag.com/top-5-php-frameworks-2012/ for a comparative review.

[eitai2001]

Good luck. And please let us know once you have something up. I'd be really interested in seeing if this thing ever even gets up and running...

Thanks. It will eventually get put up ... but not until it is working properly, which means only when I have gotten fairly decent at the framework I decide on :P ... MyBB will be the first place I make it public when I eventually do ... but my guess is not before Q1 2013, because I still have board exams to study for :P