The point that your now banned friend was trying to make was that "foreign" aircraft could be easily "sabotaged" or you could be limited in terms of how you use them due to political fallout.Originally Posted by skyhawk
Those companies you mention could easily cut off support for their products, so exactly the same applies.
It's the price we pay for not being a superpower.
if Ivor Ichikowitz had listened to skeptics there would be no Paramount Group to talk of. For those of you who don't know Paramount it manufactures a range of armoured vehicles and in 2011 unveiled AHRLAC, a long-range reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft. AHRLAC is the first aircraft to be designed and built from scratch in Africa.
http://tinyurl.com/9kme6dl
The business of that plane is moving into the realm of drones. The idea is not to risk pilots in recon flights ... that plane is an easy target and two high investment pilots goes down with it. But for border patrols in peaceful times to stop illegal border crossings it has a place.
The AHRLAC is not the first aircraft to be designed and built in Africa, but rather the first turbo‐prop civil certified aircraft developed in Africa. If one is prepared to accept aircraft using engines imported from other continents (and the AHRLAC itself will use a Pratt & Whitney PT6), then there has been a long list of local aircraft that have been designed and flown. One that is an exception is the Ravin 500, which was flown a little while ago with an Adept Airmotive engine. This made it the first South African aircraft to fly with a completely locally developed engine.
Paramount are pitching the AHRLAC for the internal security and the border and maritime patrol role, where it is expected to be more cost effective than using UAVs. Some countries use turboprop trainer aircraft for this, but they are not as well suited as a purpose built aircraft. The people at Paramount know what they are doing so they will have made sure that the aircraft is fit for purpose.
Ravin 500 was not designed from scratch its a Comanche under license
the aircraft below were designed from scratch and they have foreign engines
1.KAI T-50 Golden Eagle powered by General Electric F404-102 turbofan(South Korea)
2.HAL Tejas -General Electric F404-IN20 (India)
3.Pilutus -Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 (Swiss)
4.Embaraer Tucano-Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-68C (Brazil)
5.L-39-Ivchenko AI-25TL (then Czechoslovakia )
6.K-8 -Ivchenko-Progress AI-25 (Ukraine) and (Honeywell TFE731 for export variants)
7.Mitsubishi F-2 -General Electric
8.Kfir-General Electric J79 turbojet
9.Gripen-(Volvo-Flygmotor RM12 engine, a derivative of General Electric F404)
10.HESA Saeqeh- certainly not Iranian or western Iran
to mention but a few. Hard times call for creativity
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Direct...4541064?ref=hlThe development of this aircraft has been attributed to covert action on the part of Mossad. After General De Gaulle embargoed the sale of arms to Israel, the IAF feared that in the future it would no longer have an upper hand over its regional adversaries that were being re-equipped with more advanced Soviet aircraft. The bulk of the Israeli Air Force had been locked into the Mirage but was quickly facing problems because it had been severely depleted after the Six-Day War. They did not have a better alternative than the Mirage. Mossad was able to acquire the plans for the Mirage III, which were used directly in the design process of the Kfir aircraft series
Last edited by skyhawk; 12-08-2012 at 09:30 AM.
You all know that our Rooivalk blueprints were also stolen by a foreign intelligence agency (very sophisticated break-in at Denel a few years ago).
Seriously? :O
Jip. The Chinese are top of the suspects list.
When it comes to Attack Helicopters the Chinese are lacking and i think theyare in pursuit of developing and inducting an attack helicopter as soon as possible like they have done with fighter jets.
Chinese Rooivalk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAIC_WZ-10:)
The Chinese WZ-10:
The Ravin is actually not a Comanche under licence. The Comanche was an all metal aircraft which was discontinued in the 1970s. The Ravin is a composite aircraft which is about 7% smaller and has a higher speed and a lot longer range (due to the low drag surface and a laminar flow wing).Ravin 500 was not designed from scratch its a Comanche under license
Although the Ravin is a different size and has different proportions, it is cosmetically similar to the Comanche, which is where the confusion probably arises.
BEvonk why in the world would China steal SA military technology ? because
1.South African military research per se is BEHIND CHINA
2.China is building, submarines, missiles, tanks
3.South Africa will be good to produce something like T-59Gs we saw in Tanzania
4.China has radars detect stealth, they have two stealth planes and several UAVs including large ones and combat ones
5.China is one of ONLY FIVE countries in to world producing jet engines
6.The G-6 us a good gun but China has sold hundreds of G-6 type guns with similar performance. Now they have started getting sells for attack helicopters. I.e. Kenya, Zambia, Namibia being examples. Why has South failed to sell the Rooivalk for all the talk?
7.China has Nuclear weapons and the missiles to deliver them almost anywhere in the world. And their own GPS equivalent. The whole of Europe united has not yet managed a GPS.
8.China is producing AWACS with AESA radar.
9.China is selling combat ships - Namibia git one last week - but South Africa imports these
10.China shot down a satellite (one of the 3 countries that make anti satellite missiles)
11.The Gripen that they are importing is equivalent to the FC-1, and China is producing no less than 5 fighters more advanced than that.
12.China us producing no less than three attack choppers and Denel still has not put an anti-tank missile on the Rooivalk
13.China has UAVs already operational armed and firing Hellfire type missiles.
if China did steal from Denel maybe the purpose was to get some Western technology that South Africa may have been allowed to use otherwise SA needs to look elsewhere.
Skyhawk, you confuse me ...
You wrote: When it comes to Attack Helicopters the Chinese are lacking and i think theyare in pursuit of developing and inducting an attack helicopter as soon as possible like they have done with fighter jets.
So then I posted a photo of China's chopper that looks very similar to the Rooivalk.
And now you ask: "Why in the world would China ... " You answered your own question earlier.
Simple answer: They can't.
In those Red-Flag exercises dog-fighting was one of the exercises, meaning the F-22s allowed the Typhoons to get in close for the express purpose of testing their close-in combat capability.
In that same test when it moved from dog-fighting to BVR combat (Beyond Visual Range) not one German-piloted Typhoon was able to get within 20 miles of an F-22 before it was targeted.
Last edited by thestaggy; 13-08-2012 at 10:55 AM.
You guys are making putting me in the mood for a Tom Clancy warfare thriller again. :-)
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