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Thread: Police reportedly open fire on striking miners armed with machetes and spears

  1. #301
    Grandmaster SoulTax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thestaggy View Post
    Pretty simple explanation for this;

    1 - Unions have been allowed to wield too much power for too long. They frequently act violently and aggressively when making their demands, which are almost always met.
    2 - Unions are driven by greed, hence no desire to negotiate with one another. All they see is memberships and money and like hell will they let someone else have that.
    3 - SAPS and the SANDF could have done a better job of holding the crowds back. Where was the concertina razor wire? Thrown out with the previous regime is my guess. Where were the water cannons? Where were the riot police? Combining the above three would have made a formidable barrier.
    Replying with a few pages left to read because this needs addressing.
    The water cannon tanks were there, those were riot police, just without riot shields, because those are to protect you from unarmed protesters. You use them as a phalanx to hold a line against bodies, or to protect from thrown projectiles, not against a mob of armed lunatics.
    Watch the vid again and you will see the truck with razor wire was there. The crowd had moved, the police were trying to form a new perimeter and had not placed the razor wire as yet.
    Also, you can see smoke grenades of some kind being fired at this group that is rushing towards them. They are being fired from the left hand group of officers. This was an attempt to deter and disperse them as they rushed on the police line. This attempt was not successful and the current situation ensued.
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  2. #302
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    Seems like I'm watching a diffrent Video clip than other people.
    No I'm not rude, just honest.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaesthesia View Post
    Wow! That looks like a ridiculous amount of excessive force. They simply mowed those guys down, I'm sure a warning shot would have sufficed, they do not appear to be threatening the police's life at all.

    Their rate of fire is crazy!
    0:09 - there is a police vehicle which the column could have headed to for cover yet from the video they are intent on heading straight towards the police line ?
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    they (criminals ) are just trying to make a living .

  4. #304

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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaesthesia View Post
    Wow! That looks like a ridiculous amount of excessive force. They simply mowed those guys down, I'm sure a warning shot would have sufficed, they do not appear to be threatening the police's life at all.

    Their rate of fire is crazy!
    If you watch the video the rioters continued advancing even as the police were shooting and a police officer is clearly seen removing a firearm from one of the bodies.

    If those officers hadn’t opened fire then their lives would have been in serious danger as the rioter would have been amongst them and it would have been hand to hand.

    Based on the reports that the rioters were been given muti I doubt that the warning shot would have had any effect

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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaesthesia View Post
    Yes, 30 people are dead ....
    A crazed mob armed with pangas, shotguns and other small-arms, ignoring warnings, charging a Police line - it was never going to have a happy ending. Cops were quite restrained - they could have had a better kill ratio.
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  6. #306
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    I swear some of the people are watching this video backwards... "the strikers were trying to run away from the tear gas"

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveza View Post
    0:09 - there is a police vehicle which the column could have headed to for cover yet from the video they are intent on heading straight towards the police line ?
    0:13 the shooting is finished, everyone is killed in 4 seconds. Yeah, look I wasn't there and I know the police had a right to fire. I'm just appalled at this violence What can I say? I'm sensitive.

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    Perhaps this has been asked and answered:
    Why do strikers need to, or be allowed to, carry weapons? Traditional or otherwise, carrying weapons necessitates the police to carry superior weapons and immediately adds tension.

    In countries like the US, who are very vocal in condemning the action by our police, any civilian who carries an item deemed threatening and who then proceeds to present it in a threatening manner, is no longer considered a civilian, and use of suitable force is authorised by the police to subdue the individual.
    Last edited by lcbxx; 17-08-2012 at 01:35 PM.

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    I read a comment in one of the news stories that one of the firearms removed belonged to one of the recently killed police officers. If that is true then it is reasonable to presume that this is the same group that previously attacked and killed people earlier this week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcbxx View Post
    Perhaps this has been asked and answered:
    Why do strikers need to, or be allowed to, carry weapons? Traditional or otherwise, carrying weapons necessitates the police to carry superior weapons and immediately adds tension.
    Because history has taught people that violence is an acceptable means to achieve your desires.

  11. #311
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    For all you experts that were there Do you hear the 702 reporter that was on scene? she reported this morning, did any of you wannabe experts listen to her?
    She was there yesterday and she said the rioters were shooting at the cops, they even threatened to kill her.
    Now tell me what the cops did was wrong?
    I cannot stand you lot who sit here and think you have the right to say the cops were wrong. Those rioters started this and got what they deserved.
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  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaesthesia View Post
    0:13 the shooting is finished, everyone is killed in 4 seconds. Yeah, look I wasn't there and I know the police had a right to fire. I'm just appalled at this violence What can I say? I'm sensitive.
    It is an appalling waste of life - and I'm sure the police don't enjoy mowing down their own either.

    Whether the police reacted correctly/professionally it is undeniable that had the column of strikers lain flat and dropped their weapons this incident would have had a very different outcome.

    To run armed towards a line of police with automatic weapons is only going to have one outcome - whether the police are the worst or best trained on the planet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafrica View Post
    they (criminals ) are just trying to make a living .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaesthesia View Post
    0:13 the shooting is finished, everyone is killed in 4 seconds. Yeah, look I wasn't there and I know the police had a right to fire. I'm just appalled at this violence What can I say? I'm sensitive.
    I too am appalled at the level of violence. But I hold absolutely nothing against the police in this situation. If that group had been allowed 3 more seconds, they would have been in crossfire range and opening fire from the side flanks would have resulted in bad crossfire casualties. 5 more seconds and those spears and pangas would have been stuck in police officers. You dont get into a hand to hand battle with someone with short range weapons when you have long range weapons. They fired, the cops put them down.

    It seems worse than it is because of the number of cops that fire, each cop possibly only shot 4-8 bullets each, and not every cop was firing. But because of the number of them it seemed like 5 brownings on full auto.

    The violence needs to be laid at the feet of the unions and the guys in the crowd with the megaphones. These protests have gotten more and more out of hand over the years, and now finally something has been done about it. Potentially the wrong thing because it should have been nipped in the bud years ago. But that we can lay at the feet of the unions and government for not putting measures in place to stop the culture of violent protests. The cops were simply in a **** position and forced to deal with the cards that they were dealt. They had only one option, and we are seeing the result of it.

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    Thumbs up 'I told them to leave... I pleaded, I pleaded': Amcu leader weeps

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...u-leader-weeps

    Labour union leader Joseph Mathunjwa broke down in tears on Friday when he described the shooting deaths of more than 30 dead near Lonmin's Marikana mine, in Rustenburg.

    Using a handkerchief to wipe his eyes, he said Association of Mineworkers and Construction Union (Amcu) leaders had gone to a hilltop where protesters had gathered, without a police or a security escort, or any supervision.

    "I pleaded with them: 'The writing is on the wall, they are going to kill you'," said Mathunjwa, who is Amcu's president.
    Police opened fire on the protesters, many of whom were armed, on Thursday afternoon while trying to disperse them after a week of violent protests that claimed 10 lives.
    Mathunjwa said he twice pleaded with them to leave the Wonderkop hilltop, where they had based themselves, but they refused.
    "They wanted R12,500 [monthly pay]," he said.
    He said he and Lonmin management had tried to discuss a wage increase, but that the mine's management had refused to meet the workers.
    He said the striking workers had refused to move before the shooting.
    "I told them to leave... I pleaded, I pleaded," he said as tears rolled down his face.
    The workers refused. They said they would stay, even if they were killed.
    Mathunjwa said President Jacob Zuma should order a probe into the shooting.
    "It is with great regret... and shock... that this resulted in a loss of lives," he said.
    He said the killings could have been avoided and called on the nation to mourn those who died.
    Amcu would assist with funeral arrangements where it could.
    The union believed the week-long labour protest should have been treated with sensitivity.
    Mathunjwa began the news briefing in Johannesburg by asking that a moment's silence be observed.
    Amcu and the National Union of Mineworkers are believed to be in a wrangle over union recognition at the platinum mine.
    34 killed, 78 injured
    Thirty-four people were killed at a shooting on a hilltop near Lonmin mine at Marikana in Rustenburg, national police commissioner Riah Phiyega said.
    "The total death of the protesters currently stands at 34 with more than 78 injured," Phiyega told reporters.
    A total of 259 people were arrested and six firearms recovered.
    "This is no time for blaming, this is no time for finger-pointing. It is a time for us to mourn...
    "The police had to use force to protect themselves from the... group," said Phiyega.
    The leaders of the Marikana protesters tried to no avail to get a peaceful solution throughout the week, she said.
    Weapons taken off the dead protesters included firearms stolen from the two police officers who were murdered earlier in the week.
    Earlier at the briefing, the police showed video footage of how two policemen were killed by a group of protesters.
    The video showed police officials confronting the group, asking for weapons.
    The men told the police the weapons would be handed over at the mountain, and the police followed them there.
    At the hilltop, the incident turned violent and the two police officers were killed.
    Journalists were also showed aerial photographs of the naked men doing a ritual with a sangoma.
    The group was described as "pretty militant".
    Sounds like they got what was coming to them.

  15. #315
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    and now polititions asked why the cops had live ammo....... why do they not come down and talk to the rioters.....
    new law..... all people are now only allow to have rubber ammo.

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