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Thread: Is God Omnipotent?

  1. #1
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    Default Is God Omnipotent?

    I think not......The question is whether God can create a God more powerful than himself. Another question is whether God cna create a weapon powerful enough to kill himself...

    If he can create such a weapon, then he is not omnipotent because the surviviablity and infinite (time) nature of God is challenged. If he cannot create such a weapon then there are limits to God's powers. If there are limits to God's powers, then he is not in control of everything and therefore not omnipotent.

    I read this argument somewhere....the logic is unquestionable. I dont believe in God, but can appreciate a good logical argument. Some others are:

    By definition omnipotent means "all powerful" therefore the question represents a paradox. If God is "all-powerful" he should be able to anything, but therein lies the rub and shows why infinity is not a number. Here's why it is a paradox:

    1. If God can create a rock too heavy for him to lift, then He/She is not omnipotent—is not all-powerful—because He/She has demonstrated a limit to their power simply by being unable to pick up the rock they created.

    2. If God cannot create such a rock then He/She is not omnipotent—not all powerful—because He/She has demonstrated another limitation to their power.

    1. Can God create another God more powerful than Him/Herself?

    If He/She can, then there is another level of power than the one possessed by God—and therefore, must abdicate the claim of omnipotence. If He/She cannot, then Her/His powers are limited in what they can create. This means that omnipotence is a null word.
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  2. #2

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    Something a bit more classical Natas:

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able, nor willing? Then why call him God?"
    -Epicurus

    It is unfortunate that faith excludes reason.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natas
    I think not......The question is whether God can create a God more powerful than himself. Another question is whether God cna create a weapon powerful enough to kill himself...

    If he can create such a weapon, then he is not omnipotent because the surviviablity and infinite (time) nature of God is challenged. If he cannot create such a weapon then there are limits to God's powers. If there are limits to God's powers, then he is not in control of everything and therefore not omnipotent.

    I read this argument somewhere....the logic is unquestionable. I dont believe in God, but can appreciate a good logical argument. Some others are:

    By definition omnipotent means "all powerful" therefore the question represents a paradox. If God is "all-powerful" he should be able to anything, but therein lies the rub and shows why infinity is not a number. Here's why it is a paradox:

    1. If God can create a rock too heavy for him to lift, then He/She is not omnipotent—is not all-powerful—because He/She has demonstrated a limit to their power simply by being unable to pick up the rock they created.

    2. If God cannot create such a rock then He/She is not omnipotent—not all powerful—because He/She has demonstrated another limitation to their power.

    1. Can God create another God more powerful than Him/Herself?

    If He/She can, then there is another level of power than the one possessed by God—and therefore, must abdicate the claim of omnipotence. If He/She cannot, then Her/His powers are limited in what they can create. This means that omnipotence is a null word.
    This is like asking someone to divide by 0.

    Can anyone create a red that is actually blue?

    Logic does not survive such paradoxes, and thus such paradoxes cannot be used to judge the nature of God (if he indeed exists).

    Quote Originally Posted by qewrty
    Something a bit more classical Natas:

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able, nor willing? Then why call him God?"
    -Epicurus

    It is unfortunate that faith excludes reason.
    I take issue with the second question. That one allows evil to prosper is not proof of malevolence.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Do you want a cool one liner?

    God can't make a mistake, because He made a mistake. Do you get it?

    It's inconceivable for God to make errors, or faults, because He created everything, so your reasoning in comparison to faith is just like qewrty says, it excludes reason
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    Red is just a name we assign to a particular wavelength of light.

    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    That could be called malevolent or at least not omni-benevolent.

    A god would perhaps not be omnipotent, but just apparently so from our point of view. Just as we could appear omnipotent to an insect.

    We actually don't and probably can't know much about such an alien entity. We have no way to verify its real power or even its truthfulness. Aren't we usually told that god is truth because god says so?

  7. #7

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    Another way of putting this, is "can God create a rock lager than he can pick up?"
    Last edited by bk.ru; 05-02-2007 at 06:11 PM.

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    people have been trying to prove god does not exist for a long time,scientists especially,I believe that he can create,but why must he,Why destroy himself when he cannot clearly do that,Can you destroy yourself willingly(thats if you have a sane mind).Your mind dont allow it,so i think the same with god
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  9. #9

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    God is whatever you define god to be. If you want him/her/it omnipotent, then define him/her/it as such. Or not. Whatever cooks your supper.
    | As for man, his days are numbered, whatever he may do, it is but wind. |

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by dablakmark8 View Post
    people have been trying to prove god does not exist for a long time,scientists especially,I believe that he can create,but why must he,Why destroy himself when he cannot clearly do that,Can you destroy yourself willingly(thats if you have a sane mind).Your mind dont allow it,so i think the same with god
    my 2c worth,it might be nothin but thats all i have now
    My dear fellow. The question posed is not in the existence of God, but rather his nature. The question here is Omnipotence which is a paradox.

  11. #11
    Super Grandmaster dablakmark8's Avatar
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    I know what the post is all about,I just wanted to tell you what our nature is,compared to his,so if he made us in his image then it stand to reason that he reasons to,get it
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    Quote Originally Posted by dablakmark8 View Post
    people have been trying to prove god does not exist for a long time,scientists especially,
    Scientists aren't trying to prove there are no gods. They aren't even trying to prove that there are no fairies at the bottom of my garden.

    But this philosophical discussion ishould be about the nature of a god.

    We are according to the Bible created as God's image - i.e. a reflection. So this god would be expected to encompass everything that we do - love, hate, anger, compassion, good and evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by dablakmark8 View Post
    Why destroy himself when he cannot clearly do that,Can you destroy yourself willingly
    Able and willing are not the same thing. I am clearly able to destroy myself. I may not be willing to do so.
    Last edited by noxibox; 05-02-2007 at 07:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxibox View Post
    Scientists aren't trying to prove there are no gods. They aren't even trying to prove that there are no fairies at the bottom of my garden.

    But this philosophical discussion ishould be about the nature of a god.

    We are according to the Bible created as God's image - i.e. a reflection. So this god would be expected to encompass everything that we do - love, hate, anger, compassion, good and evil.


    Able and willing are not the same thing. I am clearly able to destroy myself. I may not be willing to do so.
    There is an ongoing error from the very first post in the thread, trying to make god a human being which he is not...

    The second question creating more powerful gods is just as absurd as to ask whether god can create mountains without valleys...

    Both valley and mountain are man's tools describing a perception...absurd...

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by douwdouw View Post
    There is an ongoing error from the very first post in the thread, trying to make god a human being which he is not...

    The second question creating more powerful gods is just as absurd as to ask whether god can create mountains without valleys...

    Both valley and mountain are man's tools describing a perception...absurd...
    Gen:1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Electrra View Post
    Is the teapot red?
    In your view the teapot is red, the bible however says god can not lie ...so...

    if god says your red teapot is blue what happens?... the teapot turns blue because god can not lie...

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