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Thread: Motivation to own firearm for self-defence?

  1. #1

    Default Motivation to own firearm for self-defence?

    What is a good motivation for owning a firearm for self-defence of self-protection?

  2. #2
    Super Grandmaster marine1's Avatar
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    Preserving the life of me and my family and anyone else who is attacked by criminals. Or are you actually applying for one and need this for the cops ?

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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by marine1 View Post
    Preserving the life of me and my family and anyone else who is attacked by criminals. Or are you actually applying for one and need this for the cops ?
    I did actually already apply for mine and used the same as what you mentioned plus some extra like driving at night late from work on unsafe roads between towns etc..

    Just curious about what other people used.

  5. #5
    Super Grandmaster marine1's Avatar
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    I applied for mine under the old act so I was lucky. If you get refused you can actually fight thegvt on it. SA is a dangerous place and they police cannot protect you so....

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by marine1 View Post
    I applied for mine under the old act so I was lucky. If you get refused you can actually fight thegvt on it. SA is a dangerous place and they police cannot protect you so....
    Yes I also applied under the old act in 1986, but now you have to apply under the new act as well. The Star newspaper had a nice article on it where similar motivations rejected by 1 police station and accepted at other.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Abstract from STAR

    What's going on?

    These are extracts from applications for firearm licences all citing self-defence as the main reason for the request. Some were approved and some were refused. The question, gun dealers ask, is why?

    # TA Shabalala

    "I need a firearm for protection due to the high rate of crime we are facing in our country. I travel early in the morning, passing through dangerous areas where criminals attacked and robbed me at gunpoint. A gun is my only protection against crime and against criminals."

    # Application Refused

    Reasons given: "Lack of motivation/Lack of merit/Unnecessary"

    # S Nkabinde

    "I travel early in the morning and late at night. Sometimes I travel long distances. I fear for my life due to the high crime rate. I need to protect myself against the robbers who want to rob me."

    # Application Approved

    # MM Xaba

    "I want a gun for protection of myself, my family and my property. I fear for my life due to the high crime rate. A gun is the best method to stop the criminals."

    # Application Refused

    Reasons: "Lack of motivation/Lack of merit/Unnecessary"

    # TP McQuire

    "Self-protection, and the protection of my property and family. I work night shift and due to the high crime rate I need a firearm for my protection."

    # Application approved

    # ME Mbono

    "I am working at night and I live in fear due to the high crime rate. I need a gun to protect myself from robbers who want to rob me."

    # Application refused

    Reasons: "Lack of motivation/Lack of merit/Unnecessary"

    # SK Mbambo

    "I want a gun for self-protection and for the protection of my property and my family. I travel long distances and work night shift. Due to the high crime rate I need a firearm for my protection.'

    # Application approved

    Official statistics

    Official statistics (released by the SA Institute of Race Relations in 1998) record that the proportion of murders committed with a firearm increased from 42% (of all murders) in 1994 to 49% in 1998; that 3,5-million South Africans between them have been given legal permission to own some 4,2-million firearms, with a similar number of illegal firearms being estimated to be in circulation.

    Could this be the reason?

    # The Supreme Court of Appeal is at present considering the correct-ness of a watershed judgment holding the police responsible for a shooting incident following their issuing of a firearm licence to a mentally unstable woman.

    Ian Hamilton was paralysed after being shot by Erna McArdell eight years ago.

    He is suing the Minister of Safety and Security for R19-million, saying that if the police checked McArdell's application for a firearm properly, they would have noticed that she was not a fit person to possess one.

    Mr Acting Justice Theo Jooste ruled in Hamilton's favour on the merits of his case. Five judges of the Supreme Court of Appeal will now decide if they were right.

    # There is already one judgment against the police. Last year the Supreme Court of Appeal ruled that the police must be held responsible for not taking away the firearm of a man prone to domestic violence. Dirk van Duivenboden was shot and injured after he got involved in a domestic dispute with his neighbour Niel Brooks, who also killed his wife and child.

    # In another case Pedro de Lima has taken the police to court for giving a firearm licence to his cousin Jose dos Santos. Dos Santos was out on bail for murder at the time he was issued with a licence.

    He was alleged to have slit a man's throat during an anger tantrum. He also had a history of mental illness.

    De Lima was shot by and paralysed by Dos Santos in 1996.

    He sued the Minister of Safety and Security for R2,36-million. Judgment has been reserved in his case.

    Why applications are rejected

    These are five of the reasons for refusing firearm licences that attorney Martin Hood has recorded:

    # You are too old.

    # You have a husband who can protect you.

    # The police will protect you.

    # You do not have the right type of house to have a firearm.

    # Your application was insufficiently motivated.

    Gun dealers have also noted the following:

    # You have not been attacked yet.

    # You are too young (a reason cited to applicants between 21 and 25 even though the legal age for gun ownership is 21)

    # Your "employee" (sic) must supply you with a firearm (the reason given to a security guard who wanted a private firearm).

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    This makes you think

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jalize View Post
    The Star newspaper had a nice article on it where similar motivations rejected by 1 police station and accepted at other.
    It's not the police station. It's the Central Firearm Registry in Pretoria. They seem to grant or refuse licences based on the phase of the moon, the quality of the tea in the urn, or maybe on whether Wacko Jacko got a legover this morning.

    Make sure you have enough documentation in there to take them to court. State that you *will* take them to court. Be prepared to take them to court.

    It's the only thing that seems to work (see last post).

    Koos
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    The CFR is the most inconsistent organisation on the planet. Basically they work at the slowest pace imaginable, and then let stuff like people with a history of mental illness slip through the cracks while refusing licenses to people who easily qualify for them. They're overwhelmed by the relicensing rubbish, which most people are ignoring anyway, and doing the worst job that they can.

    My motivation took 6 pages, and that's considered a bit short nowadays.
    :: Cannot brain, I have the dumbs.

  9. #9
    Super Grandmaster marine1's Avatar
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    Actually I have re apllied under the new act and it has changed. You do not need to motivate like before for a relicense. Only for a new one.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by marine1 View Post
    Actually I have re apllied under the new act and it has changed. You do not need to motivate like before for a relicense. Only for a new one.
    No? So why did the local DFO phone me earlier this week about obtaining a letter from a farmer to go with the rifles that I'm trying to relicence? [2]

    They most certainly still want motivation in my part of the world [1].

    Koos

    [1] Cape Town -- relicencing is handled at local (provincial, I think) level.

    [2] BTW my relicencing application went in in November 2005 -- this is how quickly they're processing things.
    Last edited by Koos Custodiet; 28-02-2007 at 04:35 PM. Reason: Added 2nd footnote
    There are no victims, only volunteers. You volunteer by looking uncertain and afraid. You volunteer by being unprepared [...] to confront the hazards of life.

  11. #11
    Super Grandmaster marine1's Avatar
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    Wow that's long, mine went in same time and got the cards last year november. All re-licensing is done at provincial level.
    I would get hold of your DPO not the DFO and check with them directly.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by marine1 View Post
    Wow that's long, mine went in same time and got the cards last year november. All re-licensing is done at provincial level.
    I would get hold of your DPO not the DFO and check with them directly.
    I'm chasing CFR weekly about new licences.

    I don't care squat for the relicencing, that can happen in their time.

    Koos
    There are no victims, only volunteers. You volunteer by looking uncertain and afraid. You volunteer by being unprepared [...] to confront the hazards of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koos Custodiet View Post
    No? So why did the local DFO phone me earlier this week about obtaining a letter from a farmer to go with the rifles that I'm trying to relicence? [2]

    They most certainly still want motivation in my part of the world [1].

    Koos

    [1] Cape Town -- relicencing is handled at local (provincial, I think) level.

    [2] BTW my relicencing application went in in November 2005 -- this is how quickly they're processing things.
    I've just been through the proficiency course so it is still fresh. You do need to motivate a re-license.

    The police station decides whether you get a proficiency certificate based on your test results, safe, home, neighbours, work status, references etc and then the form (with their recommendations) goes to Pretoria. The committee there makes the actual decision.

    The members of that board are not that knowledgable about crime or policing issues. There isn't any consistency in their decisions, however, and it is advisable to challenge any refusals.

    It is a subsection of a larger bureaucracy. Just civil servants without a clue making important decisions about things they know little about.

    The DFO told me recently that only 10 people got their license out of thousands of applications.
    Not a good sign.

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    I was advised to get a crime report for the area from the local cop shop - for relisencing a fire arm.

    As they will refuse to assist, claiming all reasons one could imagine, one can then state that the SAPS is refusing to co-operate to provide the required information to motivate.

    In theory they have to instruct the cop shop to co-operate and the application process gets delayed and delays are beneficial.

    Will see what happens.

    I attached a few newspaper crime reports in my area as well.
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    Super Grandmaster marine1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaspaas View Post
    I was advised to get a crime report for the area from the local cop shop - for relisencing a fire arm.

    As they will refuse to assist, claiming all reasons one could imagine, one can then state that the SAPS is refusing to co-operate to provide the required information to motivate.

    In theory they have to instruct the cop shop to co-operate and the application process gets delayed and delays are beneficial.

    Will see what happens.

    I attached a few newspaper crime reports in my area as well.
    I told someone to do that and the cops told them they are not allowed to give them stats for the area.

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