‘Hitler committed no crime’: fury after UCT lecturer hails Nazi madman

[ponder]

Ya well let's say SA wasn't very anti-nazi in the beginning...

People weren't too keen to support a very recent enemy.

 

[daveza]

Like the Italians? They were allies in the war.

Only till half-time.

 

[rambo919]

Huh?

I was agreeing with you that the pain of such historical events, that are factually true don't need any safe space to hid behind. 5+ million jews exterminated for no other reason than who their grandparents worshiped is a significant event, which is painful to many and should not be hidden behind safe spaces.

And I am saying the pain is subjective and has no place in objective history

Where did I say anything of what you are talking about?

You seem to have an issue with this subject though?

The pain in itself is meaningless to anyone not directly touched by it.... and pain in itself is not a good measure to make any kind of decision on.

How are SA Jews always working against the Afrikaner?

There has been a constant friction since the Jews first arrived, partly because of religion and partly because the particular set of Jews immigrating to SA has generally always leaned to the left while the Afrikaner (with the exception of the cape colony) mostly has always leaned to the right..... it's a match made in hell.

If ever there is something that is to the determent of the Afrikaner you you will find Jews on the forefront, and the same the other way around.... it's weird, as if the two groups secretly love each other but are scared of letting it show.

 

[buka001]

Like the Italians? They were allies in the war.

Oh and many officials in conquered territories (police, municipal officials) worked with the Nazis to assist in the arresting Jewish people.

The collaboration of Dutch officials is cited as being instrumental in the efficiency with which the Dutch Jews were apprehended.

Roughly 75% of the Dutch Jewish population were exterminated. Which was unusually high compared to other occupied countries.

 

[DA-LION-619]

Like the Italians? They were allies in the war.

No, actual soldiers from conquered territories, such as the Netherlands joined the Nazis. Served in detachments such as the Waffen-SS. Many were volunteers.

 

[ponder]

 

[HunterNW]

And I am saying the pain is subjective and has no place in objective history


The pain in itself is meaningless to anyone not directly touched by it.... and pain in itself is not a good measure to make any kind of decision on.


There has been a constant friction since the Jews first arrived, partly because of religion and partly because the particular set of Jews immigrating to SA has generally always leaned to the left while the Afrikaner (with the exception of the cape colony) mostly has always leaned to the right..... it's a match made in hell.

If ever there is something that is to the determent of the Afrikaner you you will find Jews on the forefront, and the same the other way around.... it's weird, as if the two groups secretly love each other but are scared of letting it show.

@EMAM is that your problem ?

 

[buka001]

And I am saying the pain is subjective and has no place in objective history


The pain in itself is meaningless to anyone not directly touched by it.... and pain in itself is not a good measure to make any kind of decision on.


There has been a constant friction since the Jews first arrived, partly because of religion and partly because the particular set of Jews immigrating to SA has generally always leaned to the left while the Afrikaner (with the exception of the cape colony) mostly has always leaned to the right..... it's a match made in hell.

If ever there is something that is to the determent of the Afrikaner you you will find Jews on the forefront, and the same the other way around.... it's weird, as if the two groups secretly love each other but are scared of letting it show.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

If ever there is something that is to the determent of the Afrikaner you you will find Jews on the forefront, and the same the other way around

 

[skimread]

You should look it up then, there’s tons of examples on non-German citizens fighting for Hitler.

Why should I look it up? You said "Not every German was a Nazi and not every Nazi was a German". Now you change it to "fighting for Hitler". Italy fought with Germany; they weren't Nazis but still complicit in fighting with Germany. Will you change it next to benefited from the German occupation? Or those who didn't fight in the war but received money from the Nazi government or worked for the German government or indirectly benefited?

People do things they benefit from. It might be murder, rape, theft, corruption or not be truthful on your tax forms. It might be tenders with false information or claiming social check when you don't qualify. It might be indirectly benefiting. There is no black and white, Nazi or non-Nazi, supremist or non-supremist. People turn on a dime to the next thing that benefits them. The world where you are either good or evil doesn't exist. If people can get away with the unethical or immoral thing that improve their life or they benefit from, they will.

People like this UCT university prof want you to live in this world of extremes where whites are evil and black people are victims. Both you and him are wrong. There are no extremes. A German can be a concentration guard and after the war be a humanitarian or a family man. No one will be the wiser. You saying "Not every German was a Nazi and not every Nazi was a German" is pointless. All Germans would benefit if Germany won the war. Today a German would not benefit but be stigmatized if they speaking up against refugee crime. That is why they don't. People do things they benefit from.

 

[JohnStarr]

Oh and many officials in conquered territories (police, municipal officials) worked with the Nazis to assist in the arresting Jewish people.

The collaboration of Dutch officials is cited as being instrumental in the efficiency with which the Dutch Jews were apprehended.

Roughly 75% of the Dutch Jewish population were exterminated. Which was unusually high compared to other occupied countries.

Sheesh, OK that I didn't know.

 

[DA-LION-619]

Why should I look it up? You said "Not every German was a Nazi and not every Nazi was a German". Now you change it to "fighting for Hitler". Italy fought with Germany; they weren't Nazis but still complicit in fighting with Germany.

All Germans would benefit if Germany won the war. Today a German would not benefit but be stigmatized if they speaking up against refugee crime. That is why they don't. People do things they benefit from.

I didn't change anything, fighting for Hitler as in part of the SS. I didn't say as an ally or part of the Axis alliance.
What's your real point though? Weren't some of those killed also Germans? I don't see how they benefited and no I'm not changing anything I mean all the German citizens that Hitler felt were unworthy.

Going by your logic, you match that lecturer because you'd have no issue with all white people are racist? Right?

 

[DA-LION-619]

People weren't too keen to support a very recent enemy.

Interesting point, even war or going to war wasn't the same back then.

 

[EMAM]

@EMAM is that your problem ?

What a load of crock

 

[Fulcrum29]

People weren't too keen to support a very recent enemy.

People should study the timeline. The Boer War was very recent at that time. To add that many people see the Germans supporting the Boers hence it is assumed that Boers was sympathetic towards the Nazis. People need to understand who, and I mean everyone, who supported the Boers by not only supplying them with weapons and medical expertise, but also with volunteers.

The history is publicly available as is the timeline which led up to the Nazi opposition. A neutral position was held due to internal reasons, and conditions, but ultimately, we did participate in the World War alongside the allies. Obviously this is not what is being argued, it is the 'resistance' to take part which is being argued today.

 

[BeerIsNotGood...]

Why should anything happen to him? His entire statement is taken out of context because people are stupid.

 

[EMAM]

And I am saying the pain is subjective and has no place in objective history


The pain in itself is meaningless to anyone not directly touched by it.... and pain in itself is not a good measure to make any kind of decision on.


There has been a constant friction since the Jews first arrived, partly because of religion and partly because the particular set of Jews immigrating to SA has generally always leaned to the left while the Afrikaner (with the exception of the cape colony) mostly has always leaned to the right..... it's a match made in hell.

If ever there is something that is to the determent of the Afrikaner you you will find Jews on the forefront, and the same the other way around.... it's weird, as if the two groups secretly love each other but are scared of letting it show.

Let me tell you an interesting little story.

My late grandfather was sent to SA from Lithuania in his teens. He arrived in the country with nothing and not being able to speak very good English.
He landed up working in the gold pans and then worked his way up in retail and landed up in Vryburg......a predominantly Afrikaans speaking town
He learnt the language, as respect to them, and did more for the community than anyone has ever done, they even named a street after him.
I'm not basing all my facts on him but, being Jewish, I've yet to see this angst against the afrikaaners that you speak of.

And, yes, he lost 2 sisters and a brother in the holocaust.

 

[buka001]

Why should I look it up? You said "Not every German was a Nazi and not every Nazi was a German". Now you change it to "fighting for Hitler". Italy fought with Germany; they weren't Nazis but still complicit in fighting with Germany. Will you change it next to benefited from the German occupation? Or those who didn't fight in the war but received money from the Nazi government or worked for the German government or indirectly benefited?

People do things they benefit from. It might be murder, rape, theft, corruption or not be truthful on your tax forms. It might be tenders with false information or claiming social check when you don't qualify. It might be indirectly benefiting. There is no black and white, Nazi or non-Nazi, supremist or non-supremist. People turn on a dime to the next thing that benefits them. The world where you are either good or evil doesn't exist. If people can get away with the unethical or immoral thing that improve their life or they benefit from, they will.

People like this UCT university prof want you to live in this world of extremes where whites are evil and black people are victims. Both you and him are wrong. There are no extremes. A German can be a concentration guard and after the war be a humanitarian or a family man. No one will be the wiser. You saying "Not every German was a Nazi and not every Nazi was a German" is pointless. All Germans would benefit if Germany won the war. Today a German would not benefit but be stigmatized if they speaking up against refugee crime. That is why they don't. People do things they benefit from.

I get the principle of what you are saying, but factually there were actual Nazis, who were not German.

Austria being a classic example ... I mean the chief Nazi himself was actually Austrian.

They had a Austrian Nazi party that was assimilated into the German Nazi party after the Anschluss.

Many Dutch officials were extremely sympathetic to the Nazis and after occupation the only legal political party in the Netherlands was the fascist NSB party.

 

[rambo919]

I'm not basing all my facts on him but, being Jewish, I've yet to see this angst against the afrikaaners that you speak of.

And, yes, he lost 2 sisters and a brother in the holocaust.

Which is why I said most not all.

There is a reason the NP was staunch supporters of Israel, they respected them and they felt a certain kinship.

Most SA Jews however (or a extremely vocal minority) both worked against Apartheid and Israel for pretty much the same reasons.... the least of which being race. You will find some of the most vehemently anti-Zionist Jews in SA.... part of which is their obvious decision to not move to Zion in the first place but for many that might just be neutrality. This interaction specifically was interesting when it came to the NP-Israel alliance during Apartheid.

I don't make the mistake of generalizing as much as it might seem though I can see why I might give that impression. Just as you get crazy and sane Afrikaners you get crazy and sane Jews... poop happens.

Please note however I said there is friction not hate between Afrikaner and Jew.... but boy can it get interesting at times.

The funny thing (I get more of a kick out of this than I should) I vaguely suspect I have Jewish ancestry on my grandmothers side but have no way to confirm for whatever it matters.

 

[rambo919]

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

SA history since about 1850-ish.... it's hardly hiding so dunno why you think it's such a big secret.

 

[skimread]

I didn't change anything, fighting for Hitler as in part of the SS. I didn't say as an ally or part of the Axis alliance.
What's your real point though? Weren't some of those killed also Germans? I don't see how they benefited and no I'm not changing anything I mean all the German citizens that Hitler felt were unworthy.

Going by your logic, you match that lecturer because you'd have no issue with all white people are racist? Right?

You are crazy. I clearly stated my position, no need to make false inferences which was your goal from the start. You make one-line random Godwin law statements that is not part of any argument. You match that lecturer not me. Your action, your debating. It matches him. You live in a world of Nazi's and non Nazi's. Have your half Nazi half not Nazi cake.