‘We are expected to be OK with not having children’: how gay parenthood through surrogacy became a battleground

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Lucas Buck

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Incipium said:
I realised I said they want to cover the cost for surrogacy but that is not the case. They just want the IVF part covered like the other women have.
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The coverage is for three of the IVF cycles, all of which involves the surrogate. You can't separate the two.

The IVF cycle
1.Ovarian Stimulation
2. Egg retrieval
3. Insemination
4. Embryo Placement
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Beyond.Celsus

Beyond.Celsus

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Lucas Buck said:
The coverage is for three of the IVF cycles, all of which involves the surrogate. You can't separate the two.
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I don't think he knows what IVF is.
He keeps banging on about the sperm without clicking that the sperm needs to be inseminated into an actual womb and that a women with a infertile husband gets the treatment and carries the baby - covered by and paying for the insurance

A lesbian couple gets donated sperm and gets inseminated and carries the baby - covered by and paying for insurance

Two gay guys - lot's of sperm - no womb. Needs to get a womb to be inseminated - not covered by and not paying for insurance.
 
konfab

konfab

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MightyGyre said:
And this is the ultimate crux of the issue, it isn't a gay or straight thing, it's the whole issue of surrogacy. It's a people problem.
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No, the ultimate crux of the issue is that people have a sense of entitlement to other people's money because they think everything and everything should be a right:

Briskin, 33, grew up assuming he’d have children. He came out in college. “Once I had come out to myself and others, I don’t think my expectation of what my life would look like changed all that much.” With marriage equality won years ago, they expected to be able to have a conventional married life.

Six months before their wedding, a targeted ad from an organisation called Gay Parents to Be landed in Maggipinto’s Instagram feed, offering free consultations with a fertility doctor who’d give them “the whole rundown” on how they could start a family. “We had the appointment and we were 100% on the same page – let’s move forward with this,” says Maggipinto.
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If you decide to never have sex with woman, it will make your future live difficult if you want to have children.

I mean just read these clowns:
Briskin was working alongside colleagues who were happily availing themselves of the benefits he wasn’t entitled to. One of his co-workers – an older, single woman – became a mother using donor sperm, IVF and surrogacy. “It was hard,” he tells me quietly. “You want to be happy for people.” Their frustration at not being able to have their own children turned to anguish. “My sister – who is more than six years younger than me – just gave birth to her second baby,” Maggipinto says, twisting his wedding ring. “I was OK with not being a parent at 30, I felt that was very normal for our generation and the current work-life balance ethos. But seven years later, I’m really not happy.”
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Just read how they view it. It never occurs to him that the benefit applies to a woman because she has a f__king womb.
 
Gyre

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konfab said:
It is inevitable when you have positive rights as positive rights are unlimited in scope, when everything and anything can become a right, anything and everything will become a right, including the most egregious actions like a man actively sexualising children.
Pedos are useful, because one would hope that they would be universally derided by everyone. But I see that isn't the case anymore




You didn't want to argue about the fact of unlimited entitlement that my post was making fun of.
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If there is so much entitlement, why is the couple fighting for what is so rightly owed to them? On the scale of benefiting from medical aid, would you put the entitlement above or below molestation?

All the points int this thread could have been addressed with very valid arguments without trashing any political spectrum or group, it seems some people just took glee when they saw it was a gay couple struggling?

Just bear in mind that we have gay parents and couples on MyBB before you take your frustrations of the left out on them and bring up pedo behavior - it's somethign we need to talk about, but why here in a thread where a gay couple wants to start a family?
 
WizardOfAges

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Beyond.Celsus said:
I don't think he knows what IVF is.
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I know what IVF is.

Beyond.Celsus said:
He keeps banging on about the sperm without clicking that the sperm needs to be inseminated into an actual womb and that a women with a infertile husband gets the treatment and carries the baby - covered by and paying for the insurance
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I do know basic biology. :rolleyes: Some women can't carry a pregnancy and can also opt for surrogacy, you know? It's not just if the man's infertile.

Beyond.Celsus said:
A lesbian couple gets donated sperm and gets inseminated and carries the baby - covered by and paying for insurance

Two gay guys - lot's of sperm - no womb. Needs to get a womb to be inseminated - not covered by and not paying for insurance.
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konfab

konfab

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Incipium said:
I know... how many times do I have to say it?
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You are a bigot according to the Guardian:
Most critics were wilfully missing the point of their case: it’s about access to IVF, and equal rights to employment benefits, not their right to surrogacy. But in bringing a fertility equality claim that took eventual surrogacy for granted, they had unwittingly stumbled into the line of fire of one of the great culture wars of our age: whether anyone – but gay men in particular – should be able to pay to use a woman’s body.
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They want IVF for a third party who isn't part of the employment scheme.
 
Beyond.Celsus

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Incipium said:
I know... how many times do I have to say it?
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So what's the problem?
You clearly have an issue with the insurance company telling these guys to het stuffed
Explain why

And don't say IVF, because neither of them can get IVF. All they can do is jack off into a cup
 
Gyre

Gyre

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konfab said:
No, the ultimate crux of the issue is that people have a sense of entitlement to other people's money because they think everything and everything should be a right:

If you decide to never have sex with woman, it will make your future live difficult if you want to have children.

I mean just read these clowns:

Just read how they view it. It never occurs to him that the benefit applies to a woman because she has a f__king womb.
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Oh well, for every time he is in anguish and gnashing his teeth, there will be 100 women aborting their babies, and tbh I don't really care about his happiness, the women aborting thing their kids or the babies that would have been. Life is life.

Guess if he wants kids he'll just have to choose to be straight again.
 
WizardOfAges

WizardOfAges

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Beyond.Celsus said:
What are they and you complaining about then?
You still haven't explained
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They want these costs covered:
Maggipinto reels off the price list in a way that only someone who has pored over every item could. There’s compensation for the egg donor: no less than $8,000 (£6,600). The egg-donor agency fee: $8,000-10,000. The fertility clinic’s bill (including genetic testing, blood tests, STD screening and a psychiatric evaluation for all parties, sperm testing, egg extraction, insemination, the growing, selecting, freezing and implantation of the resulting embryos): up to $70,000. And that’s if it all goes well: if no embryos are created during a cycle, or if the embryos that are don’t lead to a successful pregnancy, they would have to start again.
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Not these:
Then there’s the cost of a surrogate (called a “gestational carrier” when they carry embryos created from another woman’s eggs). Maggipinto and Briskin were told agency fees alone could stretch to $25,000, and the surrogates themselves should be paid a minimum of $60,000 (the advocacy group Men Having Babies says a typical fee was $38,000 in 2020; in the UK, it is illegal for surrogates to be paid, but their expenses are covered by the intended parents). Maggipinto says: “That payment doesn’t include reimbursement for things like maternity clothing; lost wages if she misses work for doctors’ appointments or is put on bed rest; transportation; childcare for her own children; [or] lodging.”
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The first part is covered for any other couple.
The second part is not covered for any couple.

It's simple. Why does no one get it...
 
konfab

konfab

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Incipium said:
Says konfab. :rolleyes:

Exactly. IVF. Not cover for surrogacy.
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The treatment is for someone who is not a part of the plan. Your medical aid is only suppose to cover the people who pay for it.

If I have cover for cancer treatment, and my brother gets cancer, since I have a right to have a brother, to use your logic, my medical aid now has to pay for his cancer treatment.


The femenists quoted in that article are correct:
“Gay men now want insurance companies to treat being born male as a disability or as a protected category, one which requires paid compensation,” she wrote in an article for a feminist website published a few days after the men filed their complaint. “They are protesting the ‘unfairness’ of not having been born biologically female.
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