“Homeless” Penny Sparrow can’t afford R150,000 racism fine

[Mike Hoxbig]

She apparently had legal representation in court. And she had filed all the affidavits required. The judge decided that her being there isn't going to change the outcome of the court anyway due to her side of the story.

Edit:

Theunissen was referred to the human rights commission, not the equality court.

What does this mean though?

She was reported the South African Human Rights Commission and was charged with hate speech in the Equality Court.

 

[agentrfr]

The fine amount wasn't primarily decided by the court. It was decided by the claimant (the ANC). The court only has powers to change it by a certain percentage, (as far as I know), or to tell the ANC this isn't hate speech.

This case wouldn't set any type of legal precedent.

Let's go the other way then. What if the FF+, Afriforum or any other collective took a particularly vile anti-white (or anti-w/e) racist/homophobe/spouter of hate-speech to a similar regional court on behalf of "a collective of people", and also wants to have a similar fine of R200k or R150k? If the monetary circumstances of those being charged is the same as Sparrow, shouln't any regional court anywhere in the country come to the same conclusion (i.e R150k fine)?

I'm not attempting to create an argle-bargle, and I'm definately not a lawyer, but that is how I interpret the Justice System is supposed to work

 

[konfab]

What does this mean though?

bad spelling on behalf of MyBuzzFeed24?

Let's go the other way then. What if the FF+, Afriforum or any other collective took a particularly vile anti-white (or anti-w/e) racist/homophobe/spouter of hate-speech to a similar regional court on behalf of "a collective of people", and also wants to have a similar fine of R200k or R150k? If the monetary circumstances of those being charged is the same as Sparrow, shouln't any regional court anywhere in the country come to the same conclusion (i.e R150k fine)?

It was primarily a civil case, so the person making the charge of hate speech gets to say how much the fine should be.

 

[MrGray]

I have no problem with the principle of a fine for this, but it should firstly take into account the severity of the infringement and secondly the financial status of the person (i.e. if you're very wealthy R150k is not huge, but if you're an unemployed homeless pensioner it seems out of proportion).

But most importantly, it must be fair, and the same principle applied to all racists. For example, Velaphi Khumalo called for whites to be hacked and killed like Jews and skinned alive. This IMHO goes far further than Sparrow's unsavoury racial slur, yet where is his fine? There have, in fact, been numerous well publicised anti-white racist or hate speech comments on FB in recent months and not a single one of them has resulted in a fine, which makes the whole principle of punishing hate speech a farce. If it is not applied fairly across the board, it cannot be taken seriously.

The scary part is that where white racism tends to be racial slurs and insults, the other side is far more militant and directly calls for terrible violent actions against whites - but do you hear any outrage, any fines being imposed, anybody bothering to track down the owners of those FB accounts? Nope, crickets.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

It was primarily a civil case, so the person making the charge of hate speech gets to say how much the fine should be.

Something still sounds a bit off there. I'd be taking every bigot to the equality court, requesting ridiculous amounts of money. Could make a full-time job of it...

 

[konfab]

Something still sounds a bit off there. I'd be taking every bigot to the equality court, requesting ridiculous amounts of money. Could make a full-time job of it...

You could, except every case would likely go to appeal, and the fine amount be substantially reduced to the point where it isn't worth it.

But I wouldn't stop you if you did such a thing.

 

[yebocan]

You mean a warning to everyone but the ruling party? All this shinanigans, although not right, is being perpetuated in order to hide similar, and worse things being done by the ANC and its members.

No, I mean...warning to others...others being, all...if others, to you mean, all, excluding some...so be it. Not my pig, not my farm to deal with how you interpret things, due to the way you see the world.

 

[Rickster]

Drive vehicle in unsafe manner, could result in death or injury = R300 fine.
Exercise free speech, hurt somebody's feelings, no possible death or injury = R150,000 fine.

You tell us.

Preach...

Give that man an Internets!

 

[kianm]

Drive vehicle in unsafe manner, could result in death or injury = R300 fine.
Exercise free speech, hurt somebody's feelings, no possible death or injury = R150,000 fine.

You tell us.

I guess she was used as an example to send a very very strong message ?

 

[Kosmik]

To be honest I don't really care whether she has the money or not.

My issue with this is her disregard for the law for not appearing in court to account for her actions. Not even a fake apology and fake remorse, which undoubtedly would have had an effect on her sentence. The arrogance of this woman. And people here are still sympathising with her? Like wtf.

/inb4 Zuma and cANCer

If she had legal representation, there is actually no requirement for her to personally appear. It can all be done through her lawyer. As this was a civil case, I don't think you can even subpoena a personal appearance but a lawyer would have to answer that.

*Edit* and my point about the money is that a person can't give what they don't have whereas community service just requires time.

 

[yebocan]

I think black people are wonderful - Sparrow

Johannesburg - Controversial KwaZulu-Natal realtor Penny Sparrow says in an exclusive interview with News24 that she is not a racist.

Last week, Sparrow received a R150 000 fine for her controversial Facebook post.

News24 tracked down Sparrow, who has been in hiding since January, to her safe-house in Johannesburg. The controversial realtor told her side of the story.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/exclusive-i-think-black-people-are-wonderful-sparrow-20160614

 

[ellyally]

I think black people are wonderful - Sparrow



http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/exclusive-i-think-black-people-are-wonderful-sparrow-20160614

Wonder how much they paid for the 'exclusive'

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Wonder how much they paid for the 'exclusive'

R150k?

 

[profeet]

let this be a warning to others, your actions...have consequences!

Not for a sith; anc.

 

[yebocan]

Not for a sith; anc.

why must you come with your absolutes....lol:crylaugh:

 

[TEXTILE GUY]

Wonder how much they paid for the 'exclusive'

Its all there in ***** and white

 

[freddster]

Its all there in ***** and white

...so according to you some are 5 stars and whites not...racist LOL

 

[TEXTILE GUY]

...so according to you some are 5 stars and whites not...racist LOL

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

I had a discussion with a lawyer friend about this issue.

This was dealt with in a civil court firstly, which means it was a lower court. Which basically means there is a severe curtailing of their powers. Specifically on the amount they can change a fine.

So basically a court at this level can choose to either not charge her with hate speech (which is not the case) or charge her and award the fine. At this level the courts can only change a fine by a specific amount. Which is the reason why the ANC's original figure of R200k got sliced down to R150k.

What likely happened is the judge recommended the case to be taken to a higher court where a more reasonable fine can then be imposed. Which is probably going to happen. So she is probably going to appeal. The media are keeping very vague about the specifics of the court details.

So that is the legal side. Politically, this plays into the ANC's hands perfectly. They get to hark on now about justice for black people, then when it gets appealed and lowered, they can hark on about how racist the judge and the judiciary is to their supporters.

IANAL - but could you confirm with your lawyer friend the following: It is my understanding that the equality court is part of the magistrate courts and as such maximum fines imposed in a magistrate courts are limited to 300K. So technically, the EC could have very well imposed a higher fine than 150K.

I doubt that she can appeal, as this means she would have to appeal in the High Court which means that she needs proper legal representation (read = costs a ton of money) and it would actually be cheaper for her to settle the 150K as a HC appeal would be far more than that.

I personally believe that she deserves the fine and more. Since the equality courts primary purpose is to conciliate and mediate, had she shown her face in court and shown remorse and given a honest apology, then I highly doubt that the EC would have ordered a fine but would have imposed a more lenient judgement in the form of ordering a formal apology, attending community service etc. I get that people sometimes say despicable things in anger or the heat of the moment and I would think that it would be acceptable to anyone if a sincere and remorseful apology was given.

Not sure if anyone has a link to the actual ruling? What would happen if she can not pay? As far as I understand hate-speech is not a criminal offence yet - or? So the EC is a bit of a hybrid and their ruling is somewhat a hybrid - i.e. more a civil case than anything else (i.e. she will not have a criminal record)?

 

[ChocolateBadger]

I still say double standards. She only got the book because it went viral. I've seen some real vile things posted by the other races towards whites and not so much as a blink. You want to see real rasicm tweets? You don't have to look further than the replys of SA political tweets. If you going to set an example, don't pander.