“Shocking” IPv6 revelation in SA

Retnox

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So our ISP's are sitting on blocks op IPv6 addresses. How many customers are actually using them? Most of the ADSL ISP's Ive spoken to say they cannot issue IPv6 addresses due to a Telkom infrastructure limitation. And as far as I know none of the cellular providers issue IPv6 addresses either?

Thus if I'm a business and use a Diginet or fiber link to my ISP I can get IPv6 addresses. If I'm an end user i'm stuck with using an IPv6 thru IPv4 Tunnel to access those shady IPv6 only servers in China.

I would love to be corrected in this assumption.
 

ambo

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So our ISP's are sitting on blocks op IPv6 addresses. How many customers are actually using them? Most of the ADSL ISP's Ive spoken to say they cannot issue IPv6 addresses due to a Telkom infrastructure limitation.
It is true that Telkom doesn't support native IPv6 on their network however that is going to becoming irrelevant in the next few months. There is no reason that the ISPs can't provide IPv6 using things like 6rd right now. The biggest consumer provider of IPv6 in the world uses 6rd for their network.

Which ISPs have you spoken to? Most of the time when I talk to the consumer ISPs about rolling out IPv6 they keep telling me that customers aren't asking for it. ;)
And as far as I know none of the cellular providers issue IPv6 addresses either?
Their excuse was that there weren't any phones or devices that supported IPv6. Many of the smart phones released this year do support IPv6 - so where are the networks now?
 

markings

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Why should I ask for an IP6 address?

Instead of "shocked" the guy should be pleased that the network still works.
 
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AndrewAlston

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Why should I ask for an IP6 address?

Instead of "shocked" the guy should be pleased that the network still works.
I'm shocked that you can make such a comment, because it shows rather a lack of knowledge about the last 10 years of development that has gone into the protocol. We haven't had any issues since the rollout, and everything went exactly as expected.

There are many that sit there and go "IPv6 will never happen", well, guess what... once upon a time the worlds population believed the earth was flat.... see how well that worked for them....
 

Aragon

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I wish people who are still in the dark or negative about IPv6 would take the time to do some solid reading and deep consideration on IPv6 so they can see the massive benefits it'll bring. In a nutshell: it's going to bring the next level of Internet freedom. I can't wait for it to be wide spread.
 

Retnox

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Ambo,

Whilst I quite agree the average home user is quite happy to use dyndns and port forwarding, There is probably quite a small demand for IPv6 for the average poweruser. I'm pretty sure the average MyBroadband subscriber has a variable cornucopia of internet capable devices. For the lifehackers amongst us accessing your IP camera's NAS boxes, Desktop PC's with a cheap TLD may just be the what convinces us to change ISP's.

Most of the equipment I've bought in the last 2 years are IPv6 capable. If they weren’t when I bought them a simple firmware upgrade sorted it.

IPv6 might not be something demanded by the average user, yet it could fill the gap between a regular uncapped ADSL option and a business ADSL solution.

Vodacom3G implemented the “unrestricted” APN based on feedback from MyBroadband forum users.

Take the humble SMS; it was a feature that wasn't requested by users but soon became a sizeable income for cellular providers.

As for myself I do have a IPv6 capable ADSL router, currently using Mweb as an ISP (With a unshaped connection from Axxess – when the occasion demands it) As for the road a Vodacom SIM provisioned with the "Unrestricted" APN on a Nexus S running Cyanogenmod 9

On a side note; whatever happened with Telkom's FTTH and 40Mbps ADSL rollout? Waterkloof Ridge was apparently part of the pilot - yet Telkom still lists the 012460 and 012346 numbers with a maximum speed of 1Mbps.
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/telecoms/46644-1gbps-telkom-vdsl-and-ftth-infrastructure-roll-outs-begin.html
 
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b@nD

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Reading

I wish people who are still in the dark or negative about IPv6 would take the time to do some solid reading and deep consideration on IPv6
so they can see the massive benefits it'll bring.
In a nutshell: it's going to bring the next level of Internet freedom. I can't wait for it to be wide spread.
Agreed
Please be so kind as to provide the appropriate links for this material -- specifically in the SA context
Thanks
 

AndrewAlston

Group Head of IP Strategy – Liquid Telecommunicati
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Agreed
Please be so kind as to provide the appropriate links for this material -- specifically in the SA context
Thanks
While I can't provide you specific documents at this point in the SA context, because sadly, SA is lagging well behind in this area, I can relay some experience with you and make some general comments about IPv6. As I state, these comments are based on nothing more than my own experience and information gleaned from having been present at countless meetings around IPv6 around the world.

Firstly, let me start by saying this, IPv6 works, there is no question around that, and there is a lot of content out there on IPv6, readily accessible today. The address space is huge, and the ability to number every device on the planet with a unique address and make it accessible has huge advantages. Network address translation is a broken mechanism in so many ways, it creates many many problems in terms of end to end connectivity, it has zero security benefits (there are papers written on why this is, and in fact, contrary to what some people like to claim, NAT actually has certain VERY distinct security drawbacks), and in addition, it creates complexity that isn't needed.

Secondly, IPv6 is necessary, the simple fact is that even with network address translation in heavy use, the rates of IPv4 consumption are rising, and there is no more space, we've hit a critical junction where we simply cannot continue with a depleted address pool. ARIN is scheduled to run out in January or February of 2013, RIPE is scheduled to go into soft landing phase this week, APNIC has been in soft landing phase for a few months already (soft landing phase basically means they are down to the dregs of the available space, so the only blocks available are tiny and not really suited for any substantial deployment). There are those who sit and go "But Africa still has loads of IPv4 space, we don't need v6 like everyone else does". Those people are wrong, dead wrong, because when the rest of the world moves on and goes IPv6 only because they have no choice, we will start losing communication to those IPv6 only sites, and that day is coming, faster than most anticipate. (And African IPv4 burn rates are accelerating anyway, so I dont think we have THAT long before the space is all gone as it is).

Then, let me get a little bit more controversial (sorry to the people who see NO drawbacks in IPv6, but we have to look at this in a holistic balanced manner). The simple fact is that IPv6 is still missing certain key things that exist in IPv4 today, we have no MPLS-TE implementations for v6 (and infact MPLS as a whole still doesn't work on entirely native IPv6), standardised SNMP MIBS are still missing, the Layer 7 traffic shaping for V6 is still sorely lacking etc. This is going to hamper deployment and is a major drawback to ISPs who are attempting to roll it out.

That being said, the ISPs need to realize that there is no option anymore, because the day will come when a customer attempts to access something, and it simply isn't available on IPv4. If their ISP cannot provide them with access, they will move ISPs and that ISP will soon find itself with far fewer customers than it had before.

For many years I heard ISPs saying "How will IPv6 make us money, where is the profit incentive to roll this out", and for many years, myself and others have said, this is NOT about revenue generation, it is about revenue RETENTION, it is about being able to keep your customer base and not have them move on to somewhere that can support what you cannot.

I can say for one thing, I use one of the major cellular providers in this country for mobile connectivity, but if one of the other providers starts offering IPv6 before the one I use does, I will be switching, instantly. The same goes for the DSL ISP I use, I want the connectivity, I want to get rid of the NAT, I want to be able to access my devices at home and my office directly when I travel and move around, and IPv6 is the only way this is going to become a reality.

On the more technical aspects, I'd also like to point out the following:

Currently the IPv4 global routing table is sitting at approximately 410 thousand routes. By default, the Cisco 7600 as an example (and this is if you are running fairly recent supervisor engines) supports a v4 routing table of approximately 500 thousand routes. This can be adjusted to maybe 750 thousand routes. The routing table has grown more than 20 thousand routes in the last 2 or 3 months alone, and the growth in the table is accelerating at an alarming rate. This will continue to accelerate as the blocks available to allocate on IPv4 get smaller due to lack of space, meaning people routing more smaller blocks. Sooner or later this table is going to get to big, and either a lot of hardware replacement is going to have to happen (read, huge expense) or things are going to get really messy. By contrast, the IPv6 table is much smaller and will grow at a slower rate, since typically the allocations are large enough that people never need to apply for more and never need to announce tons of small routes as they get more and more blocks (End user V6 space is typically allocated as between /44 and /48, and sometimes bigger, ISPs can fairly easily get a /32, and even if you are allocating each customer a /64 (which is accepted practice), you could hand out /64 blocks to the entire worlds population 2 BILLION TIMES over before running out). The actual number of /64 blocks in a /32 is 18446744073709551616.

So V6 also solves some technical problems :)

Thanks

Andrew
 

zamicro

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...snip...
Thanks Andrew, nice write up. Being not professionally involved with networks, but playing with it as a hobby, I have always hated it that I need to do so many NAT setups for all my devices. I really hope that ISPs will hand out blocks to each customer instead of single addresses. Reading what you said, it seems as if it might be reality soon.
 

Gimli

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This article was published 7 years ago. South Africa is still nowhere with regards to IPV6 adoption. Wonder what the traffic from universities are like since this article
 

sajunky

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SA is not hurrying to join unfinished protocol stack and there is also reason to not take a lead.
We are not suffering lack of IP addresses like other countries do.
 

ToxicBunny

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SA is not hurrying to join unfinished protocol stack and there is also reason to not take a lead.
We are not suffering lack of IP addresses like other countries do.
Unfinished?

What the hell are you smoking?
 

access

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Well, guess what - that's a myth. It's a fiction manufactured by a 19th C Frenchman.
maybe the few scholars around the world knew the earth was round, but there were definitely more flat earth believers back then than there are today, many more people without access to knowledge back then than today. superstition was at a high.

are they going to provide proof eventually that it was not thought that the sun revolves around the earth too. or that the earth was the center of existence etc.
 
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