1 million whites have left SA

[xtermin8or]

@ drone, I agree with your link - especially this part

Tendai Dhliwayo, spokes-man for the Health Professions Council of South Africa, said South African doctors could compete with the best in the world because local medical schools offered rigorous training.

Referring to the 600 South African doctors working in New Zealand, he said: "That speaks volumes about the training and expertise our healthcare practitioners possess.

"It is the reason why thousands of our healthcare practitioners are easily absorbed by most first world countries."

and although you adressed your comment to turbo - my response I believe shows a shared sentiment

 

[Turbo_Aspiration]

Turbo_Aspiration

Here we go again, first of all I did not say anything about whites or blacks. All I said was that the standards were down. You are turning this into a race issue.

Sorry about that, the whole post wasnt aimed at your comments.. just the 1st 3 paragraphs about standards. Also, this was a race issue before i posted.

I feel that entry exams are more for filtering the large number of applicants because more people can apply now compared to the past.. but yes, im sure matric standards has to do with it too. But we're not talking about matric standards, u dont come out of matric being a scientist/doctor/engineer

 

[Acill3s]

If you think about it there are 10 000 whites that go to england every year and probaly the sam eamount who go to Australia and America, It is lik an exodus

 

[JStrike]

BTTB : Why do you think the white pop was closer to 10million?

 

[NameOfBeast]

also the majority of academic staff at these universities are foreign/QUOTE]


Oh, please, do back that one up!

 

[orin76]

It's quite sad that so many white people feel the need to emigrate. I can definitely sympathise with those who feel that crime is out of control and that the best way to ensure that you reach old age is to move to greener pastures. What I do not sympathise with is people who blame BEE & AA. While many things are more difficult for whites than they were 15 years ago, a skilled, hardworking and intelligent white person will ALMOST ALWAYS succeed in this country. I've been working for a parastatal for the last 7 years and have seen this to be true. Many mediocre whites struggle but the cream will rise to the top.

I also think that many of our expat South African brothers and sisters will eventually return once things improve (and they will...eventually). I have lived overseas for a total of 4 years. I spent 3 years in the The Netherlands and 1 year in France and while I thoroughly enjoyed the experience, I was never allowed to forget that I was a guest in someone else's home. I would definitely recommend working overseas if you get the chance, but my home will always be here.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[diabolus]

Lets see, look at the recent SAA article, where they are trying to pusg through more black pilots...how do they intend to do it? Reducing the flying time and experience required.

So anyone telling me this is not happening in critical professions such as medicine is a living a fools paradise. Sure there are good blacks no doubt, thats not the issue. Its a matter of people being fast tracked to fill demand. Quotas just add to a higher probability that a weaker candidate are fast tracked due to a lower entry requirement. Trust me i know people in medical lecutrer positions, they get nailed if they fail too many blacks, it is huge explanation process to proof a black person should fail as opposed to proving a white person should pass.

 

[bwana]

@ drone, I agree with your link - especially this part



and although you adressed your comment to turbo - my response I believe shows a shared sentiment

Of course - as if Tendai Dhliwayo, spokes-man for the Health Professions Council of South Africa, would stand up and say - yup - our doctors are k@k.

 

[Drone 42]

Of course - as if Tendai Dhliwayo, spokes-man for the Health Professions Council of South Africa, would stand up and say - yup - our doctors are k@k.

Exactly.

xtermin8or
I'm not saying all our Doctors or who ever are rubbish. My point is that standards are down. But this is off topic in any case

 

[IanC]

Hah. We may pay medical aids for our health care, but we have some of the best medical care in the world. Wait till you're in the UK, and have to book an appointment with a doctor several weeks in advance. For non-emergency room type emergencies, you may be able to get in in a day or two.

That's if you do it on the NHS. If you actually pay for it, it goes a lot quicker ... as it does everywhere else.

 

[IanC]

It's quite sad that so many white people feel the need to emigrate. I can definitely sympathise with those who feel that crime is out of control and that the best way to ensure that you reach old age is to move to greener pastures. What I do not sympathise with is people who blame BEE & AA. While many things are more difficult for whites than they were 15 years ago, a skilled, hardworking and intelligent white person will ALMOST ALWAYS succeed in this country. I've been working for a parastatal for the last 7 years and have seen this to be true. Many mediocre whites struggle but the cream will rise to the top.

I also think that many of our expat South African brothers and sisters will eventually return once things improve (and they will...eventually). I have lived overseas for a total of 4 years. I spent 3 years in the The Netherlands and 1 year in France and while I thoroughly enjoyed the experience, I was never allowed to forget that I was a guest in someone else's home. I would definitely recommend working overseas if you get the chance, but my home will always be here.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Couldn't agree with you more, I spent the thick end of nearly 10 years overseas. I am UK born and bred but still consider SA to be "home", however I disagree with you on BEE, EE, AA for the simple reason that "two wrongs don't make a right".

Please tell me the difference between apartheid job reservation and any one of the acronyms above?

The short answer is there isn't any difference apart from the fact that " I got done down by apartheid, so I'll see my kid rise above everyone no matter what the cost". BEE, EE and AA is breeding a new dysfunctionalism and sooner or later we (or our children) will reap the benefit.

 

[xtermin8or]

I don't have anything against people leaving the country, that's their democratic right as citizens of South Africa, you have the right to leave, work in another country, and to return to South Africa if they so wish. That is the joy of living in a democratic country

what annoys me, are the many people, who believe that because people are leaving the country, there will be no skilled people to take up their place. That because white professionals are leaving the country, the country is going down the tubes.

This is not true, there are many extremely talented, professional, and capable black people who can easily take the place of those that are leaving, and surprise, surprise there are many white professionals who have not and are not planning to leave this country.

Countries like the UK, Australia, and Canada have huge numbers of expats all over the world, but you don't see them saying ' oh the country is going down the toilet '

why do we do it, and I have to say it like it is, in South Africa it is a racial issue, white people are convinced that they are the only people who are civilised and can do professional jobs.

 

[Highflyer_GP]

Wtf is it always a case of black and white? There are skilled indian and coloured people too. Competency isn't limited to one specific race - it should be judged on the institution where one obtains their qualification. Obviously an internationally accredited institution would hold more value.

 

[xtermin8or]

In South Africa, as can be seen by the AA laws and BEE scorecards - black means blacks indians, and coloureds. so when i talk about black I refer to all those races

 

[Highflyer_GP]

Then perhaps the terms white and non-white should be used? In which case I might agree with you about the common misconceptions that people seem to have.

 

[IanC]

I don't have anything against people leaving the country, that's their democratic right as citizens of South Africa, you have the right to leave, work in another country, and to return to South Africa if they so wish. That is the joy of living in a democratic country

what annoys me, are the many people, who believe that because people are leaving the country, there will be no skilled people to take up their place. That because white professionals are leaving the country, the country is going down the tubes.

Ever tried to get hold of a plumber in London ???

This is not true, there are many extremely talented, professional, and capable black people who can easily take the place of those that are leaving, and surprise, surprise there are many white professionals who have not and are not planning to leave this country.

Yup, but professionals aren't the only worry ... how about electricians, plumbers, fitter & turners, welders, to name but a few ...

Countries like the UK, Australia, and Canada have huge numbers of expats all over the world, but you don't see them saying ' oh the country is going down the toilet '

This isn't comparing "apples" with "apples", we need to be compared with another "Third World" country like, say Zimbabwe.

why do we do it, and I have to say it like it is, in South Africa it is a racial issue, white people are convinced that they are the only people who are civilised and can do professional jobs.

So you deny that the apartheid era "job reservation" legislation isn't ostensibly the same as the ANC era BEE, EE, AA legislation.

 

[IanC]

In South Africa, as can be seen by the AA laws and BEE scorecards - black means blacks indians, and coloureds. so when i talk about black I refer to all those races

This can be seen all over SA i.e. the coloureds get the short end of the stick ... they're too white.

I can just see PW now "white, white-ish, cream, ... not quite white enough ..."

These scorecards smack of the Nazi-era version of Jewishness.

 

[xtermin8or]

Please tell me the difference between apartheid job reservation and any one of the acronyms above?

The difference is that BEE, AA, and EE are attempts at correcting the injustices of the past or put another way - to level the playing fields - and 12 years is a very short time to have achieved this

Prof Kader Asmal used to say don't call it affirmative action, call it corrective action.

Think about if these policies were not in place -

Here are the realities of current day South Africa

Black people at the moment earn on average R1 for every R7 - 50 earned by whites

42 % of households ( all black ) have no electricity

85 % of agricultural land is owned by whites

Only 2 % of the countries wealth is owned by blacks ( measured by listed companies on the stock exchange )

This is after twelve years of democracy, now if affirmative action policies were not put in place, even these minute advances would not have taken place.

Whites would still have been in complete control of the economy and things would have no chance of changing for the better for the man on the street

at least now, with government putting on the pressure, it is hoped that there will be further advances

Yes, it would have been wonderful for the white man to have retained the status quo in terms of the economy, but the country has to change and it has to start somewhere and unfortunately someone has to pay the price.

If it doesn't happen this way, it will happen violently like in Zimbabwe

 

[xtermin8or]

@ IanC - the same applies to artisans and professionals

 

[jontyB]

predominantly black universities have dramatically increased the numbers of doctors they produce 737 in 2005 compared to 231 in 1994

predominantly white universities have only increased their output by 8 percent, so there are enough black doctors to counter what some people call the brain drain

also the majority of academic staff at these universities are foreign, so in effect we are experiencing a brain gain - so much for those who say South Africa is so bad all professionals are leaving

and if we still run into trouble, we have a ready supply of doctors from Cuba and India at our disposal

Don't say stupid things. You know very well that admission requirements are lower for blacks than whites. Oh, and while you are on your stallion, would you mind quoting your statistical sources? Should I remind you of the number of Cuban Doctors in the country? Also, if the Brain Drain were just a figment of whitie imagination, then why did dear old Mbeki go and complain at Mr Blair about this?