1 million whites have left SA

[JStrike]

BTTB : Interesting. You could be right. I always thought the StatsSA stats were based on a census, and then they assume X, Y and Z variables (how many people filled in the forms, etc). But if they got those initials variables wrong, or didn't use them at all, it could be a very different figure

 

[JStrike]

IanC, jontyB : Nice guys. Personally insult me. Classy

 

[jontyB]

JStrike, BTTB: our most reliable stabases indicate that there were about 7 million whites during the last elections present in SA. Accordingly, if BTTB's assumption of about 10 million whites in 1994 is correct, that would indicate a decrease of 3 million, or 30 percent. Sounds feasible to me.

 

[Claymore]

Hahaha! You've OBVIOUSLY not been to a state hospital recently.

Why would I want to do that? I can afford medical aid, no doubt partly because of my good education, largely funded by the apartheid government.

 

[Brenden_E]

Why would I want to do that? I can afford medical aid, no doubt partly because of my good education, largely funded by the apartheid government.

If you don't know - then don't make comments about how good the system is.

Look, I got a yellow card - woot!

 

[kingrob]

Paint with the same brush - you can also go private in the UK. As far as the national health goes its way better than SA's equivalent.

And sorry but you're deluding yourself if you think SA still has some of the best medical care in the world. New Zealand certainly doesnt think so any more. http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=125&art_id=vn20060903101049611C480648

You will most probably find it will be a South African doctor that will operate you in the UK.

 

[Turtle]

predominantly white universities have only increased their output by 8 percent, so there are enough black doctors to counter what some people call the brain drain

Where do you get your info? This seems to contradict you:
http://www.health24.com/news/General_health/1-915,37523.asp
"our medical schools are only training two-thirds of the doctors required in South Africa"
So even before factoring in the brain drain, we aren't producing enough doctors.
"The medical teaching corps is not replacing itself – emigration plays a large part in this. ...Twenty percent of doctors registered in South Africa are living in other countries and there is a high demand elsewhere for doctors trained in South Africa"

The entrance requirements are now also not as strongly based on academic performance anymore but rather "life skills", and so it stands to reason that the quality would deteriorate, and indeed there are signs that it is starting to:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=125&art_id=vn20060903101049611C480648

 

[Skeptik]

what annoys me, are the many people, who believe that because people are leaving the country, there will be no skilled people to take up their place. That because white professionals are leaving the country, the country is going down the tubes.

This is not true, there are many extremely talented, professional, and capable black people who can easily take the place of those that are leaving, and surprise, surprise there are many white professionals who have not and are not planning to leave this country.

Countries like the UK, Australia, and Canada have huge numbers of expats all over the world, but you don't see them saying ' oh the country is going down the toilet '

why do we do it, and I have to say it like it is, in South Africa it is a racial issue, white people are convinced that they are the only people who are civilised and can do professional jobs.

I could have sworn you argued in many other threads that white people were previously advantaged, privileged, received the best education etc.. etc.

By your own argument then, white people are the experienced elite. Therefore any loss of these well-educated, experienced, affluent people is a tragedy?

That is of course if you appreciate them at all - or merely regard them as unwelcome in the new black society. I suspect the latter.

We must strive to retain this community at all costs.

 

[Syndyre]

so you agree that only whites doctors have high standards - and before you say no-one mentioned race - this thread is about whites leaving the country

The only reason people have this perception is thanks to the govt lowering entrance levels for blacks relative to whites. Personally I'd rather have a doctor that got in on a higher level, whatever their race. And considering I pay a fortune for medical aid each month that's my right.

 

[Syndyre]

I also know that this curriculum has been evaluated by the World Health Organisation who - excuse the pun - gave it a clean bill of health

Was thinking of studying medicine a couple of years ago and looked into studying it overseas because of our wonderful government's policies and in the process read about the various certifications etc. Anyway, my point is WHO evaluation basically means nothing, they don't actually evaluate it themselves, if a member government approves it they approve it automatically, not too stringent.

 

[Syndyre]

Erm, no JStrike - you're talking rubbish. Few people can leave - especially people that still have young kids. It is an expensive exercise and getting more and more difficult to emigrate from South Africa.

I'd agree he's talking rubbish for different reasons. I know personally know an unbelievable number of people that have left, and not on contract for a year or 2, but permanently settled in other countries. Sure its not a representative sample, after all they are the educated, wealthy elite but they're also the people you want to keep in the country. Despite what people say this level of emigration isn't "normal" by global standards, as much as people will try to explain it away as they do the crime here.

 

[Syndyre]

The entrance requirements are now also not as strongly based on academic performance anymore but rather "life skills", and so it stands to reason that the quality would deteriorate, and indeed there are signs that it is starting to:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=125&art_id=vn20060903101049611C480648

.

UCT deputy dean of medicine, Professor David Dent, said there was a "medical carousel" whereby doctors from the rest of Africa and Eastern Europe wanted to come to South Africa and South African doctors, in turn, migrated to Canada, Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

Seems as if we may be getting the doctors nobody else wants to be blunt. Incidentally know 2 Polish doctors here, both highly qualified specialists, that are thinking of leaving for the US because they're sick of all the restrictions here, being forced to work in govt hospitals etc. So its not always as simple as they like to portray it as.

 

[JStrike]

Syndyre : What? You are agreeing with me. I wasn't saying people haven't emigrated. I was countering the statement that everyone who can emigrated has done so. This I do not agree with. Emigrating is pretty easy to do for young highly skilled people, but almost noone in my extended circle (Whist certainly not representative of the general population, certainly is representative of people that can easily leave) has done so. Note that that is not the same as saying that many people have not. It is a completly different discussion. I do think many, many white south africans have left.

Not tring to be rude, but it is advisable to read the entire thread (which has gotten crazily long) before commenting

 

[Myrrdin]

The difference is that BEE, AA, and EE are attempts at correcting the injustices of the past or put another way - to level the playing fields - and 12 years is a very short time to have achieved this
Prof Kader Asmal used to say don't call it affirmative action, call it corrective action.

Think about if these policies were not in place -

Here are the realities of current day South Africa

This is after twelve years of democracy, now if affirmative action policies were not put in place, even these minute advances would not have taken place.

Whites would still have been in complete control of the economy and things would have no chance of changing for the better for the man on the street

at least now, with government putting on the pressure, it is hoped that there will be further advances

Yes, it would have been wonderful for the white man to have retained the status quo in terms of the economy, but the country has to change and it has to start somewhere and unfortunately someone has to pay the price.

If it doesn't happen this way, it will happen violently like in Zimbabwe

So according to you someone who started school in 1994 and is looking for a job today has to be disadvantaged because of .......

and in six years time someone born in 1994 must pay for .......

So in six years time it would be acceptable for the people who were born post 1994 to resort to violence.

 

[Claymore]

If you don't know - then don't make comments about how good the system is.

This is why I specified medical aid. And medical care funded by medical aid is better than the NHS.

 

[Syndyre]

Syndyre : What? You are agreeing with me. I wasn't saying people haven't emigrated. I was countering the statement that everyone who can emigrated has done so. This I do not agree with. Emigrating is pretty easy to do for young highly skilled people, but almost noone in my extended circle (Whist certainly not representative of the general population, certainly is representative of people that can easily leave) has done so. Note that that is not the same as saying that many people have not. It is a completly different discussion. I do think many, many white south africans have left.

Not tring to be rude, but it is advisable to read the entire thread (which has gotten crazily long) before commenting

True, guess I misread what you were trying to say. Had read the entire thread but tiredness was creeping in by the time I commented.

 

[Syndyre]

This is why I specified medical aid. And medical care funded by medical aid is better than the NHS.

Maybe but a fair comparison would be comparing govt hospitals here to the NHS there. You can't compare private here to govt over there.

 

[jontyB]

This is why I specified medical aid. And medical care funded by medical aid is better than the NHS.

That's a kind of daft statement though - it's like saying our private schools are better than your public schools...

 

[Cara]

To those who think Uni training is same as overseas must disagree, taught at a Uni in Gauteng for a bit and one of the postgrad students I had to help did not know what a noun was! That's primary school info.

Worked in Academic Support so mainly helped the students who were struggling but 90% of them should not have matric. Don't know how they got to postgrad or even 2nd year. The average level of competence was around senior primary level for a second language speaker.

Helped another dept with grouping students according to English lang ability, about 40% of essays were incomprehensible. Another 30% had serious grammar and sentence construction problems. The remaining 30% I could give a grade between 40-65%.

Another colleague reported that in second year students were doing grade 8 maths.

Can only blame Dept of Education for this. Can't just set quotas, need to go for quality.

 

[kaspaas]

To those who think Uni training is same as overseas must disagree, taught at a Uni in Gauteng for a bit and one of the postgrad students I had to help did not know what a noun was! That's primary school info.

Worked in Academic Support so mainly helped the students who were struggling but 90% of them should not have matric. Don't know how they got to postgrad or even 2nd year. The average level of competence was around senior primary level for a second language speaker.

Helped another dept with grouping students according to English lang ability, about 40% of essays were incomprehensible. Another 30% had serious grammar and sentence construction problems. The remaining 30% I could give a grade between 40-65%.

Another colleague reported that in second year students were doing grade 8 maths.

Can only blame Dept of Education for this. Can't just set quotas, need to go for quality.

The DoE is clamping down on private schools and home educators.

They don't like it if people are using different curricula than they are prescribing.

But the results of the official DoE curricula are well described by Cara. We find the same at the workplace - and it crosses racial barriers.

We have to teach matriculants to write a single sentence fax acknowledging receipt of a document.

It is real bad not being able to give an instruction for a single paragraph fax to a matriculant and having to do it myself. It is faster...