12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic

Nicodeamus

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
7,968
You're showing the number of cases per million as something of value, but are willfully ignoring the fact that there is a huge variance in the amount of testing / million
I am not ignoring that, yes there might be a huge variance in the number of testing and strategy, but generally the number of deaths are difficult to ignore. Basically you cannot hide a body.

You are saying that the difference in number of deaths /million is not significant enough, yet Sweden's death rate is 30% more than Denmark's, and more than 3 times that of Norway.
You have to look at death per capita and at what stage of the epidemic they are at .

The other way is to look at project forward from closed populations (small towns in Italy or the Diamond Princess).


Each country has different testing methodology, different healthcare systems , different ways of recording the data, different patameters. Yet you only cite these as caveats when they don't match your story.
That is just wrong, yes they have different healthcare methods, but again counting bodies is straightforward, except for the Italians who have been accused to counting lots of people as dying of COVID, when in fact it wasn't.

The other simple way to look if this is BS is to compare the amount of people that die of infectious diseases for this season to last years and again you find that even in Italy, they do not add up.


Important reference values include the number of annual flu deaths, which is up to 8,000 in Italy and up to 60,000 in the US; normal overall mortality, which in Italy is up to 2,000 deaths per day; and the average number of pneumonia cases per year, which in Italy is over 120,000.

Current all-cause mortality in Europe and in Italy is still normal or even below-average. Any excess mortality due to Covid-19 should become visible in the European monitoring charts.
When there are too many variables, it's both a blessing and a curse for anyone analysing the data. Blessing because you can pick and choose, and make the data show pretty much what you want it to. And a curse because deep down in your heart you know that you cannot filter out those variables to the extent that the data resembles any sort of accuracy
its not about picking and choosing at random and making up a story that seems straight. you need to look at the data and put it under scrutiny, i.e. look for full populations, frequency of testing, bodies, things that are difficult to mess up and can give good insight.


Luckily in all of this, Sweden thus far is a very good control group for a European country and time will tell if the lock-down was worth it. My suspicion is that we are giving government credit for what our immune system is actually doing.

and this graph makes quite a good argument that its our immune system (notice how Sweden is doing the same as the rest of us)?
1586091676068.png
 

Hamish McPanji

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
39,960
Luckily in all of this, Sweden thus far is a very good control group for a European country and time will tell if the lock-down was worth it. My suspicion is that we are giving government credit for what our immune system is actually doing.

and this graph makes quite a good argument that its our immune system (notice how Sweden is doing the same as the rest of us)?
View attachment 812949
All the European countries in those graphs locked down very late, except Norway.

In each of those countries, there were between 5000-8000 cases, and 150-600 deaths by the time they locked down . I bit late, don't you think? Italy was 8th-9th March. UK was 23rd March. And everyone went to the pub the night before. And those case numbers are BS, as they weren't testing extensively at that time in most of those countries....check the numbers

Are those the examples you are looking at as the other side of the coin?

Norway shut down on March 12th. 800 cases, and the first death.

Dead bodies count, you say. Norway is far lower at 11 deaths per million than any of the others in that graph. Those other countries range from 266 to 40 deaths per million.
 

Nicodeamus

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
7,968
All the European countries in those graphs locked down very late, except Norway.

In each of those countries, there were between 5000-8000 cases, and 150-600 deaths by the time they locked down . I bit late, don't you think? Italy was 8th-9th March. UK was 23rd March. And everyone went to the pub the night before. And those case numbers are BS, as they weren't testing extensively at that time in most of those countries....check the numbers
That was my point, many of them went into lockdown exactly when the graph started curling over. So why go into lockdown if we are taught that it flattens the curve. Evidently its our immune system.

Are those the examples you are looking at as the other side of the coin?
erm yes

Norway shut down on March 12th. 800 cases, and the first death.
So norway does extensive testing as does sweden, but shutting down didnt really stop the spread of the virus.

Dead bodies count, you say. Norway is far lower at 11 deaths per million than any of the others in that graph. Those other countries range from 266 to 40 deaths per million.
Dead bodies really remain to be seen at the end. So far Norway is doing well and that can either be due to lockdown or because they might have better hospital staffs etc.
 

Hamish McPanji

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
39,960
That was my point, many of them went into lockdown exactly when the graph started curling over. So why go into lockdown if we are taught that it flattens the curve. Evidently its our immune system.

erm yes
No, evidently its the staple booze that is drunk in Sweden. My theory has as much backing data as yours.

So norway does extensive testing as does sweden, but shutting down didnt really stop the spread of the virus.
I already showed you the testing figures. Is it all possible that 19 thousand+ tests per million is higher than 3,654 tests per million. So there might be an inkling of possibility that the accuracy might in fact be higher in a factor of multiples

Dead bodies really remain to be seen at the end. So far Norway is doing well and that can either be due to lockdown or because they might have better hospital staffs etc.
There you go, inserting caveats again.

The fact remains, Sweden has the worst death rates in the Scandinavian region. And is the only country that hasn't implemented lockdown. And coincidentally, or not the worst testing rates.
 

Nicodeamus

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
7,968
again you're seeing what you want to see. Your own argument.

The UK goes into lockdown on the 23rd of March
Italy on the 8th of March
Norway on the 12th of March

Now look at the graphs again.

Notice how the curve rolls (i.e. the slope changes, where I circled) over before going into lock down?

1586109921459.png

I.e. lookdown does not flatten the curve.

Its pure nonsense.
 

Hamish McPanji

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
39,960
again you're seeing what you want to see. Your own argument.
Yes. At least I'm honest about it. I said we are all doing it. I'd venture that I'm taking more into account than you are

The UK goes into lockdown on the 23rd of March
Italy on the 8th of March
Norway on the 12th of March

Now look at the graphs again.

Notice how the curve rolls (i.e. the slope changes, where I circled) over before going into lock down?

View attachment 813101

I.e. lookdown does not flatten the curve.

Its pure nonsense.
What is pure nonsense is how you are again ignoring the levels of testing when looking at those graphs. Which of those lines are most accurate? Or should I say...remotely accurate?

So basically you are drawing false conclusions from faulty data. Good for you, man...if it makes you happy
 

russellw1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
106
Most of Africas population are young people and with all the other diseases hopefully Africans have more immunity (except for HIV infected). I don't expect such a high death rate as in the rest of the world.
 

Nicodeamus

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
7,968
Yes. At least I'm honest about it. I said we are all doing it. I'd venture that I'm taking more into account than you are



What is pure nonsense is how you are again ignoring the levels of testing when looking at those graphs. Which of those lines are most accurate? Or should I say...remotely accurate?

So basically you are drawing false conclusions from faulty data. Good for you, man...if it makes you happy
Man those are new cases reported each day.

They all follow the same trend and even if anything a country would test MORE cases per day as their equipment becomes up to date or they become more reactive, then we should expect the curve to increase.

We are seeing the inverse. The curve flattens, because again due to our immune system. Group immunity flattens the curve and not locking down the country. It flattened before going into lock-down.
 
Last edited:

Nicodeamus

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
7,968
Most of Africas population are young people and with all the other diseases hopefully Africans have more immunity (except for HIV infected). I don't expect such a high death rate as in the rest of the world.
HIV is one big open question and simply we don't know yet.
 

Hamish McPanji

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
39,960
Man those are new cases reported each day.

They all follow the same trend and even if anything a country would test MORE cases per day as their equipment becomes up to date or they become more reactive, then we should expect the curve to increase.

We are seeing the inverse. The curve flattens, because again due to our immune system. Group immunity flattens the curve and not locking down the country. It flattened before going into lock-down.
As I said, feel free to believe whatever you want.

But don't expect anyone else to when your "ultimate master graph of proof" not only has data of varying accuracy, but at this stage is 8 days out of date. To the extent that some of the countries on your master chart hadsome of the worst testing regimes at that stage, and even now.

And then there is that mitigation that you keep throwing in. So first , body count is the only thing that matters.....until it doesn't match, then it's because of the healthcare, or misreported deaths.
 

Hamish McPanji

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
39,960
Gonna really upset the applecart if HIV drugs turn out to be a blessing in disguise hey! That will mess with youse okes forecasts! :cool:
Doctor in India said he treated with cocktail anti malaria and ARV s about a month ago



 

Moto Guzzi

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Messages
959
Simple questions, stupid for some....Not all viruses are bad, some destroy bacteria and other harmfull viruses.
Now the question is, after interfering in this field for last 100 years, with plants, animals & humans viruses and bacteria, and testing/creating using other mediums than humans, is that not a weak spot in the chain of events leading to unknown or dangerous outcomes, kept in mind its not seen as a good idea to test on humans 1st. How does nature see these practises and reacts to it, do we know-?
-Why the question:Well my own health at risk, and nothing for years, then suddenly out of nowhere pops up another one and take humans down, one not seen before-!
-Next question is if you get infected day-1 you go to town, you have say 7 days incubation period, this virus lands in your throat and starts to incubate there. On day-3 you go to town again, get infected again, this time by touching a surface and touching your eyes, this virus goes in via your eyes, and goodness know where it starts to incubate.
On day-5.......and so on etc......So now before your 1st virus has incubated you have a lined up line of viruses busy incubatiing...After the 1st one incubated, and starts its own generation, the others follow, and overload your system as appose to a person only infected once and fights it off no problem....Is this scenario possible seeing healthy doctors exposed multiple times die, or may this be the 1st virus that behave like this-?


 
Last edited:

Nicodeamus

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
7,968
Showing again, that Sweden's curve is flattening nicely without any lockdown.
1586245521588.png

So yes, lockdown doesn't seem to do it, perhaps our immune system?
 
Top