157 aboard Ethiopian Airlines flight to Nairobi involved in fatal crash

eg2505

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disaster of epic proportions for Boeing, wonder how they will bounce back from this disaster?
 

TheJman

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So just been reading around and something is weird - it looks like the media has picked up on the MCAS system, and the anti-stall feature whereby if the plane is in auto-pilot and it detects a stall that it puts the nose of the plane down to try recover the plane before it it's a critical stall.

Surely the same system has been installed on all new Boeings, so this problem would be more of a global boeing problem? Just a question that's bugging me
 

Craig

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So just been reading around and something is weird - it looks like the media has picked up on the MCAS system, and the anti-stall feature whereby if the plane is in auto-pilot and it detects a stall that it puts the nose of the plane down to try recover the plane before it it's a critical stall.

Surely the same system has been installed on all new Boeings, so this problem would be more of a global boeing problem? Just a question that's bugging me
The 737 MAX seem to have an inherent instability as it's an old design (sort of like a pig with some added lipstick, or a citi golf), so they tried to sort out the problem of it pitching up at high power by adding MCAS. This is how I understand it anyway.

Most(or all) of their other planes are more modern designs without the same issue.
 

Gordon_R

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So just been reading around and something is weird - it looks like the media has picked up on the MCAS system, and the anti-stall feature whereby if the plane is in auto-pilot and it detects a stall that it puts the nose of the plane down to try recover the plane before it it's a critical stall.

Surely the same system has been installed on all new Boeings, so this problem would be more of a global boeing problem? Just a question that's bugging me
No, only the B737 MAX has the MCAS system, as Cr419 explains:

The 737 MAX seem to have an inherent instability as it's an old design (sort of like a pig with some added lipstick, or a citi golf), so they tried to sort out the problem of it pitching up at high power by adding MCAS. This is how I understand it anyway.

Most(or all) of their other planes are more modern designs without the same issue.
Cross post from the other thread on the MAX grounding: https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/threads/us-grounds-all-boeing-737-max-8-planes.1013180/post-23096994

Quite a good article on why the B737 MAX is such a series of compromises, compared to a new design: https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/the-world-pulls-the-andon-cord-on-the-737-max/
 

TheJman

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The 737 MAX seem to have an inherent instability as it's an old design (sort of like a pig with some added lipstick, or a citi golf), so they tried to sort out the problem of it pitching up at high power by adding MCAS. This is how I understand it anyway.
So there's a site called ASRS database online - from their landing page

"Welcome to the ASRS Database Online! The ASRS database is the world's largest repository of voluntary, confidential safety information provided by aviation's frontline personnel, including pilots, controllers, mechanics, flight attendants, and dispatchers. The database provides a foundation for specific products and subsequent research addressing a variety of aviation safety issues."

If you use their search function for the 737 - 800, there are a few reports on a 'nose-down' situation with the MCAS and auto-pilot on, and the pilots immediately disengaged auto-pilot and flew manually without further problems - will be looking out in the reports on both the latest crashes whether the pilots disengaged auto-pilot
 

Craig

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So there's a site called ASRS database online - from their landing page

"Welcome to the ASRS Database Online! The ASRS database is the world's largest repository of voluntary, confidential safety information provided by aviation's frontline personnel, including pilots, controllers, mechanics, flight attendants, and dispatchers. The database provides a foundation for specific products and subsequent research addressing a variety of aviation safety issues."

If you use their search function for the 737 - 800, there are a few reports on a 'nose-down' situation with the MCAS and auto-pilot on, and the pilots immediately disengaged auto-pilot and flew manually without further problems - will be looking out in the reports on both the latest crashes whether the pilots disengaged auto-pilot
I read about that, this seems to be a very unsafe plane.
 

Gordon_R

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So there's a site called ASRS database online - from their landing page

"Welcome to the ASRS Database Online! The ASRS database is the world's largest repository of voluntary, confidential safety information provided by aviation's frontline personnel, including pilots, controllers, mechanics, flight attendants, and dispatchers. The database provides a foundation for specific products and subsequent research addressing a variety of aviation safety issues."

If you use their search function for the 737 - 800, there are a few reports on a 'nose-down' situation with the MCAS and auto-pilot on, and the pilots immediately disengaged auto-pilot and flew manually without further problems - will be looking out in the reports on both the latest crashes whether the pilots disengaged auto-pilot
Those reports may or may not have anything to do with the MCAS system. They do raise critical questions about the perfunctory certification process for a complex new aircraft variant such as the B737 MAX.
 

TheJman

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Those reports may or may not have anything to do with the MCAS system. They do raise critical questions about the perfunctory certification process for a complex new aircraft variant such as the B737 MAX.
100%, just pure speculation here, there could be a myriad of other issues that may have occurred. Also 100% agreed, looks like pilots weren't actually trained on how to use the plane.

The one report on the site literally shows that both pilots had no idea what a certain indicator was, even though they couldn't find what it meant, and yet they still proceeded with the flight - slightly scary
 

Ockie

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So just been reading around and something is weird - it looks like the media has picked up on the MCAS system, and the anti-stall feature whereby if the plane is in auto-pilot and it detects a stall that it puts the nose of the plane down to try recover the plane before it it's a critical stall.

Surely the same system has been installed on all new Boeings, so this problem would be more of a global boeing problem? Just a question that's bugging me
As I understand, no. Only on the 737 Max. Reason being the new CFM engines installed on it creates their own lift, and this can cause the nose to lift higher than intended and so, to counter this, Boeing came up with MCAS to neutralize that effect from the engines. This is a issue only on the 737 Max.

Other airliners including Airbus and Embraer and Bombardier have stall warning systems where they shake the stick pretty violently when a potential stall situation is detected by avionics.
 
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