157 aboard Ethiopian Airlines flight to Nairobi involved in fatal crash

Ecko_1

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#81
As a rule I dont fly Kulula due to their frequent flight delays. Now there is another reason to avoid them if they have potentially dodgy planes incoming.
 

Jola

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#82
As a rule I dont fly Kulula due to their frequent flight delays. Now there is another reason to avoid them if they have potentially dodgy planes incoming.
The 737 Max 8's are going to the local BA operation, not to Kulula.

So you have to avoid BA.
 

Craig

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#83
The 737 Max 8's are going to the local BA operation, not to Kulula.

So you have to avoid BA.
Our company uses BA, I will just do my best to avoid flying anywhere then in future until this crap is sorted. Luckily I don't have to go up to HO regularly. Good luck to those that have to.
 

Jola

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#84
Our company uses BA, I will just do my best to avoid flying anywhere then in future until this crap is sorted. Luckily I don't have to go up to HO regularly. Good luck to those that have to.
Local BA only has one 737 MAX at the moment, so your chances of getting it is low.

But hopefully Boeing will ground all 737 MAX's after this crash.
 

bromster

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#86
must have been a nightmare on that flight - vertical speed constantly changing:

View attachment 630134
Strangely not. Nothing above say 3000ft/min in the climb and 2000ft/Min in the descent.

Those figures are well within normal limits at that altitude. It doesn't seem like there were any sharp changes to pitch during that telemetry either. Most pitching moments spanning about 15 seconds which also seems normal.

Sure, it would've been a bit weird as a passenger, but from what I read in the data, hardly a rollercoaster.

This would further reinforce the theory that the pilots were struggling to retain control, but still thought that they'd be able to make it back. The rate of climb graph shows smooth and constant rate of climb immediately after takeoff in line with what the autopilot would do. The rest of the graph is very erratic and would suggest that the autopilot had been disabled and that the crew were manually trying to recover the aircraft to level flight.

I suspect that this might be another case of unwanted autopilot input causing this aircraft to crash. Very sad.
 

Aharon

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Sep 12, 2006
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#87
I was booked on the midnight on Tuesday to Bole but changed late last week to the afternoon flight which is an airbus by the looks. I’m going to avoid these new 737s until concrete measures come in from Boeing, assuming this was a Boeing error which seems likely.
Yeah afternoon is generally their new a350. Sometimes it's the 777
 

Aharon

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#88
Strangely not. Nothing above say 3000ft/min in the climb and 2000ft/Min in the descent.

Those figures are well within normal limits at that altitude. It doesn't seem like there were any sharp changes to pitch during that telemetry either. Most pitching moments spanning about 15 seconds which also seems normal.

Sure, it would've been a bit weird as a passenger, but from what I read in the data, hardly a rollercoaster.

This would further reinforce the theory that the pilots were struggling to retain control, but still thought that they'd be able to make it back. The rate of climb graph shows smooth and constant rate of climb immediately after takeoff in line with what the autopilot would do. The rest of the graph is very erratic and would suggest that the autopilot had been disabled and that the crew were manually trying to recover the aircraft to level flight.

I suspect that this might be another case of unwanted autopilot input causing this aircraft to crash. Very sad.
Would you not say the aircraft was struggling to gain altitude? It didn't make 1000ft in 6 minutes.
 

FlashSA

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Oct 19, 2007
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7,823
#89
Strangely not. Nothing above say 3000ft/min in the climb and 2000ft/Min in the descent.

Those figures are well within normal limits at that altitude. It doesn't seem like there were any sharp changes to pitch during that telemetry either. Most pitching moments spanning about 15 seconds which also seems normal.

Sure, it would've been a bit weird as a passenger, but from what I read in the data, hardly a rollercoaster.

This would further reinforce the theory that the pilots were struggling to retain control, but still thought that they'd be able to make it back. The rate of climb graph shows smooth and constant rate of climb immediately after takeoff in line with what the autopilot would do. The rest of the graph is very erratic and would suggest that the autopilot had been disabled and that the crew were manually trying to recover the aircraft to level flight.

I suspect that this might be another case of unwanted autopilot input causing this aircraft to crash. Very sad.
For those not familiar with M.C.A.S.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/...ash-pilots.html#click=https://t.co/o7elEOMiGo
 

Aharon

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#90
The 737 Max 8's are going to the local BA operation, not to Kulula.

So you have to avoid BA.
Never been a ba fan with their mostly ancient fleet. Having said that, not sure Comair has decided where all 8 are going. We know the first one went to ba
 

bromster

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#91
Would you not say the aircraft was struggling to gain altitude? It didn't make 1000ft in 6 minutes.
Impossible to say. Will need the black boxes.

If there is an issue with an aircraft during initial climb, the most natural thing to do would be to request to level off while you do your check lists.

If you fix it, you continue the flight and continue climb to your cruising altitude. If you can't fix it and it's serious enough, you divert back.

I suspect that they would have leveled off at 8000 or so to read the relevant equipment failure check list and decide what to do. Perhaps they disengaged the autopilot because they suspected its involvement in the problem. This would explain why there were constant, slight variations in altitude leading up to the accident. Time will tell.
 

Grant

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#93
Pilot reported difficulties and asked to turn back, airline CEO says
Ethiopian Airlines CEO Tewolde GebreMariam told reporters at a press conference that the pilot of flight ET 302 that crashed Sunday morning had reported technical difficulties and asked for clearance to return to Addis Ababa.
interesting similarity:
Lion Air crash: pilot on earlier flight asked to turn plane around

The Lion Air plane that crashed into the Java Sea with 189 on board had technical problems minutes after takeoff the day before, with the pilot putting out an urgent call that is just one level below a Mayday call and requesting to return to the airport.

Herson, chief of the airport authority for the Bali-Nusa Tenggara area, said that after the alert the pilot updated the control tower to say it was flying normally and he would not return to the airport after all.
The Denpasar-Jakarta flight landed at its destination at 10.55pm local time on Sunday.

The same Boeing 737 Max jet took off at 6.20am the next day bound for Bangka island, off Sumatra, and plunged into the sea 13 minutes later. Just before the crash the pilot had made a request to return to base.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-on-earlier-flight-asked-to-turn-plane-around
 
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ForceFate

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#94
According to a mention on News24 the airplane landed earlier this morning on a flight from Johannesburg. Strange they will use it for this route. I know it is capable, but still strange.
Were they not using the B738 at some point?

Edit: I see powermzii has confirmed...
 

Lew Skannen

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#96
If there is demand they upguage to a 787 from JHB. They also sometimes fly the 737 from CPT but it's usually a 787
Thanks for confirming. I just found it strange that they would make use of such a small aircraft on such a long route. There are several issues that would bother me using a 737 on a 5 1/2 hour route, most of which, profitability.
 

Daruk

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#97
“Boeing has asserted the pilots on the next-to-last flight of the same Lion Air aircraft that crashed encountered a similar, if less severe, nose-down problem. They addressed it by flipping off the stabilizer cutout switches, in keeping with the emergency checklist. Still, Indonesian investigators found, the pilots broke from the checklist by flipping the switches back on again before turning them off for the rest of the flight. That flight, with different pilots from the flight that crashed, landed safely”

So that’s some culpability on the part of Lion Air IMO. You don’t disregard when pilots are forced to activate emergency safety measures like that surely!
 

Daruk

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#98
Interesting that Brazil’s aviation authority was the only one to decide that pilots needed retraining or at least debriefing for MCAS.
 

ice_cubes

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Flew Ethiopinan Airlines in December to Spain, and will never fly with them again. Their planes are shoddy. For a new Boeing 787, it was in pretty poor shape. Seats damaged, windows quite scratched, and trim panels loose.

Seen many ancient 737's flown by Mango, Kulula and Safair that look years newer than the 787 I flew.

They were the cheapest, and it shows.
I used them in December as well - my issue was the plane that was used for the Addis to Madrid route-it didn't even have screens at all :( - the Addis to JNB route is a new fleet & I didn't have any problems at all.
 
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