2014 - November Rugby Internationals

[Cray]

New Zealand just manages their rugby better overall. All players are contracted through the NZRU and then to the regional unions. And they seem to manage the transition from Super Rugby level to National level way better than us or the Aussies. So when someone has to make the step up from a Super Rugby side to the All Blacks the gap they have to close is smaller than someone from the Cheetahs going into the Springboks, especially if the Springboks are playing Bulls rugby.
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I read a good commentary about why England and South Africa tend to dominate U20 rugby but then fall away. England and South Africa primarily focus on the bigger guys with less of an emphasis on skills, this way they tend to physically dominate opponents at the U20 World Cup which is seen as an end to itself. New Zealand are a lot more concerned about players with skill than with size as the end goal is always to nurture players for a possible place in the senior side. They realise that size and physicality will most likely come later but that picking players with higher skills levels is more important than simply picking the biggest guys. Makes a lot of sense and you can see then proof of it when you compare skills levels of the senior sides.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I read a good commentary about why England and South Africa tend to dominate U20 rugby but then fall away. England and South Africa primarily focus on the bigger guys with less of an emphasis on skills, this way they tend to physically dominate opponents at the U20 World Cup which is seen as an end to itself. New Zealand are a lot more concerned about players with skill than with size as the end goal is always to nurture players for a possible place in the senior side. They realise that size and physicality will most likely come later but that picking players with higher skills levels is more important than simply picking the biggest guys. Makes a lot of sense and you can see then proof of it when you compare skills levels of the senior sides.

Which Springboks are bigger in comparison to their opposition?

 

[Fulcrum29]

Problem if you focus too much on a small group of players then you don't generate depth.

True,

 

[GreGorGy]

Which Springboks are bigger in comparison to their opposition?

Formerly, Luke Watson: Bigger douchebag than any other.

(Sorry Luke - jk)

 

[Fulcrum29]

Formerly, Luke Watson: Bigger douchebag than any other.

(Sorry Luke - jk)

 

[ZCFOutkast]

The forum has gone from lauding Pollard as the best thing that's happened to SA Rugby, then Lambie is the Messiah, both are no longer good enough as first choice generals and now there's calls for Spies to come. Ah aya yay! Heyneke what have you done!

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I read a good commentary about why England and South Africa tend to dominate U20 rugby but then fall away. England and South Africa primarily focus on the bigger guys with less of an emphasis on skills, this way they tend to physically dominate opponents at the U20 World Cup which is seen as an end to itself. New Zealand are a lot more concerned about players with skill than with size as the end goal is always to nurture players for a possible place in the senior side. They realise that size and physicality will most likely come later but that picking players with higher skills levels is more important than simply picking the biggest guys. Makes a lot of sense and you can see then proof of it when you compare skills levels of the senior sides.

Yeah. I think SA teams don't focus enough on ball skills and a little too much on pure braun. Mallett's also been despairing about this for a while. Look at the IRB Player of the Year, Brodie Retallick. Physical in the rough stuff and flexible in the lineouts as any lock should be, but also has fantastic ball skills.

 

[thestaggy]

I don't understand the flak Willie gets. Of the backline players he is the one that looked most likely to make something happen. The Hougaard-Pollard combo was as inspiring as molasses on a winter's morning, the Reinach-Lambie combo - while improved - is a little blinkered at the minute, the centres can only run straight into the largest concentration of opposition forwards and the wings are left to mere spectator status because of the toss the guys in the middle are cooking up.

Not saying Willie is going Izzy Dagg out there, he has own issues, but of our backline players he's the most inspiring of the lot.

 

[sand_man]

The Hougaard-Pollard combo was as inspiring as molasses on a winter's morning

I take it you didn't watch SA vs NZ at Ellis Park?

I'll say it again, your 9/10 can only shine if the forwards are laying the platform. If the forwards are under pressure that gets transferred to 9/10. So against NZ forwards performed, Hougaard gets MOM award, IRB try of the year award and Pollard looks world class.

A month later in Ireland, forwards get harassed and bullied and Hougaard/Pollard produce a performance that gets them benched for the next match!

It's a fine line.

I like the idea of a Hougaard/Pollard and Reinach/Lambie halfback combinations going into the world cup. All 4 players must find form in the Super rugby season and take that form into the RWC.

 

[thestaggy]

And as for the size argument, I don't actually see it. Our forwards are no larger than their counterparts (there was a 6kg difference between the Bok and Welsh packs) and our backs are actually on par and in some areas a little smaller than their counterparts. Savea and SBW dwarf any player we field in the backline. Serfontein was the smallest centre on the field at the weekend.

The problem is not our fascination with size, but the mentality of the players or how they are coached to play. Serfontein is Conrad Smith's size, but Smith will make you miss tackles while Serfontein is used as a battering ram. Not even SBW, who dwarfs Serfontein, plays as a battering ram. Therein lies the problem.

 

[Fulcrum29]

And as for the size argument, I don't actually see it. Our forwards are no larger than their counterparts (there was a 6kg difference between the Bok and Welsh packs) and our backs are actually on par and in some areas a little smaller than their counterparts. Savea and SBW dwarf any player we field in the backline. Serfontein was the smallest centre on the field at the weekend.

The problem is not our fascination with size, but the mentality of the players or how they are coached to play. Serfontein is Conrad Smith's size, but Smith will make you miss tackles while Serfontein is used as a battering ram. Not even SBW, who dwarfs Serfontein, plays as a battering ram. Therein lies the problem.

Asking HM:

http://www.supersport.com/rugby/article.aspx?Id=2569244

Q&A with Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer
07 October 2014, 09:39

Gustav asked:

Hi Coach. Do you think a team of bulk or muscle vs a team with ball skills, speed and thinking rugby will be key to winning the World Cup?
Thanks Gustav

Heyneke Meyer answered:

Gustav, I think you need a combination of all of that, as well as a little bit of luck. The days where we were bigger and stronger than the rest of the world are gone so we can’t place too much emphasis on our physicality. That is why we place a lot of emphasis on decision making, ensuring we look for space and ultimately scoring tries (we had the most in the world last year). That goes for the big guys as well as the silky runners, because in the end, you can be as big and strong or as fast and skilful as you like, it won’t help if you don’t do the right things on the field.

...

Jan asked:

Hi Heyneke

How much does the Northern Hemisphere conditions play a role in your selection? The obvious school of though would be to select bigger player. A guy like Willie Le Roux has also proven himself in the NH when maybe he would not normally be considered a typical NH player.

All the best

Heyneke Meyer answered:

Well Jan, the World Cup will be in the North, but at this stage I’m only focused on the next game. We will always look at what is the best for the team and although conditions play a role, it’s not the be all and end all when it comes to team selection. We also look at the opposition for the coming week and what would be the best way to approach that specific game, within our main framework of playing.

 

[thestaggy]

I take it you didn't watch SA vs NZ at Ellis Park?

I'll say it again, your 9/10 can only shine if the forwards are laying the platform. If the forwards are under pressure that gets transferred to 9/10. So against NZ forwards performed, Hougaard gets MOM award, IRB try of the year award and Pollard looks world class.

A month later in Ireland, forwards get harassed and bullied and Hougaard/Pollard produce a performance that gets them benched for the next match!

It's a fine line.

I like the idea of a Hougaard/Pollard and Reinach/Lambie halfback combinations going into the world cup. All 4 players must find form in the Super rugby season and take that form into the RWC.

I did indeed watch that match.

On tour they struggled, badly, and as this is the last time the Boks play before the WC I'll forget about that game against the ABs nearly two months ago as the past 4 weeks have highlighted some serious problems. Hougaard's service was slow when presented with clean ball and his kicking was atrocious. His decision making went for a ball of schit against the Welsh and he snuffed the slim hope we had of coming back.

Reinach and Lambie operated under the exact same conditions and were better. Not world class, but better.

 

[sand_man]

And as for the size argument, I don't actually see it. Our forwards are no larger than their counterparts (there was a 6kg difference between the Bok and Welsh packs) and our backs are actually on par and in some areas a little smaller than their counterparts. Savea and SBW dwarf any player we field in the backline. Serfontein was the smallest centre on the field at the weekend.

The problem is not our fascination with size, but the mentality of the players or how they are coached to play. Serfontein is Conrad Smith's size, but Smith will make you miss tackles while Serfontein is used as a battering ram. Not even SBW, who dwarfs Serfontein, plays as a battering ram. Therein lies the problem.

100%!!

Our style of play means by the EOYT our players are spent as a result of being used as battering rams for the duration of the rugby championships!

It also means they susceptible to serious injury and burn out!

By comparison the Aussies looked relatively fresh going into the season finale. Symptomatic of their less abrasive style of play!!

SA rugby of old was built around big, powerful forwards that could physically dominate the opposition. Men fashioned by hours of hard, physical labour on their respective farms. Our farmers were what coal miners were to Welsh rugby!

But in the modern and professional era we being left behind. Rugby players are made in the gym now which is why I'm still such a fan of Pierre Spies. Physically he is a unique specimen, a great athlete combining both power, stamina and speed. The epitome of the modern rugby player.

 

[sand_man]

I did indeed watch that match.

On tour they struggled, badly, and as this is the last time the Boks play before the WC I'll forget about that game against the ABs nearly two months ago as the past 4 weeks have highlighted some serious problems. Hougaard's service was slow when presented with clean ball and his kicking was atrocious. His decision making went for a ball of schit against the Welsh and he snuffed the slim hope we had of coming back.

Reinach and Lambie operated under the exact same conditions and were better. Not world class, but better.

There 4 tests before the RWC.

Yes, they were poor on tour but playing behind a pack battling for parity.

Arg, whom I kidding? Boks have been poor this year period. Amazed at their 71% win ratio. I just think there were enough positives NOT for them to be written off for RWC.

 

[thestaggy]

There 4 tests before the RWC.

Yes, they were poor on tour but playing behind a pack battling for parity.

Arg, whom I kidding? Boks have been poor this year period. Amazed at their 71% win ratio. I just think there were enough positives NOT for them to be written off for RWC.

Not saying they were poor throughout the year. They came darn close in Perth and had the ABs the most uncomfortable they've been for some time in Auckland before coming up big in Jo'burg. Many folks thought they were on to something, as did I, but then the wheels came off and quite spectacularly at times.

 

[faniebraai]

Catching up now and I'm absolutely loving the ignore that is going around this morning...

 

[sand_man]

 

[sand_man]

Not saying they were poor throughout the year. They came darn close in Perth and had the ABs the most uncomfortable they've been for some time in Auckland before coming up big in Jo'burg. Many folks thought they were on to something, as did I, but then the wheels came off and quite spectacularly at times.

Yeah. They made some cardinal errors throughout their campaign.

Scraped through against Argentina, blew it against Australia in Perth, stupid yellows, missed penalty kicks etc etc

This is why I say this team, as a team, simply hasn't played at any where near 100%. They talk about sides peaking at the right time. If we can improve overall by 20% we in with a shout.

 

[faniebraai]

Can we fill up this page with as much as possible as quick as possible please... people are looking at me funny when i scroll past that Britney pitcher.

 

[Cray]

But in the modern and professional era we being left behind. Rugby players are made in the gym now which is why I'm still such a fan of Pierre Spies. Physically he is a unique specimen, a great athlete combining both power, stamina and speed. The epitome of the modern rugby player.
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Being ripped and having strength doesn't give you ball skills and tactical awareness. Have always thought our rugby players look like they spend too much time in the gym compared to guys from New Zealand who look less ripped but outplay the boks year after year.

As for Pierre Spies - for such an epitome he has a disturbing habit of going missing in action when he plays for the boks, I'll take Duane Vermeulen any day of the week.