2019 Rugby World Cup

[daveza]

And suddenly it's all Wales.

 

[thestaggy]

How many sleeping giants of world rugby are we allowed? I'd say Japan is more of a sleeping giant than USA... Look at their progress over the last 20 years.

I'd imagine all the large countries (population) that excel in multiple sports and have the facilities and resources to invest in sport.

USA, Japan and Russia automatically come to mind.

The US has a massive population. If rugby ever cracked the NFL dominance, there's a huge pool of potential players to draw from. The US doesn't lack for big and athletic men.

 

[Cray]

I'd imagine all the large countries (population) that excel in multiple sports and have the facilities and resources to invest in sport.

USA, Japan and Russia automatically come to mind.

Not to mention Australia with Union lagging behind league and Aussie Rules... If that every changed they would have an amazing pool of players to draw from..

 

[Luke7777]

The US has a massive population. If rugby ever cracked the NFL dominance, there's a huge pool of potential players to draw from. The US doesn't lack for big and athletic men.

... who isn't used to playing 80 min at a time, with both offence and defence on the field at the same time, not allowed to pass forward, not allowed to interfere with players and getting hit without protective gear. They will not last

 

[Fulcrum29]

Rugby: Scots set up crunch game with Japan to end pool phase

Scotland pick up the bonus-point win they needed to keep their Rugby World Cup quarterfinals hopes alive as they beat Russia 61-0 in front of 44,123 fans at Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa

english.kyodonews.net

Rugby: Scots set up crunch game with Japan to end pool phase

Ireland play Samoa on Saturday in Fukuoka, while Scotland are scheduled to meet Japan on Sunday in the final pool game of the tournament.

However, the approach of Typhoon Hagibis has put the game in Yokohama in doubt.

World Rugby said before the tournament that any game that could not be played would be treated as a 0-0 draw with both teams being awarded two points. That would see Japan through to the quarterfinals and the Scots eliminated.

However, organizers have since talked about "contingency plans" and it is understood any game affected by the weather -- including Saturday's game between England and France in Yokohama -- could be moved to another venue.

Such games would be played behind closed doors for logistical reasons as, particularly in the case of the Yokohama matches, it would be impossible for all those with tickets to fit in a smaller venue.

Not a good position World Rugby is in. These are crucial matches, but there are whispers that Sunday might turn into a double-header. Don't know how something like this is communicated to ticketholders.

 

[Sl8er]

COME ON FIJI!!

 

[rietrot]

Now if only Fiji didn't lose to Uruguay this would have mattered.

 

[thestaggy]

Out of curiosity, I just ran the pool stage scores for all of the World Cups to date:

1987 Average margin of victory: 27 (40-13 avg scoreline)
1991 Average margin of victory: 21 (31-10 avg scoreline)
1995 Average margin of victory: 28 (42-14 avg scoreline)
1999 Average margin of victory: 33 (47-14 avg scoreline)
2003 Average margin of victory: 36 (49-13 avg scoreline)
2007 Average margin of victory: 30 (42-12 avg scoreline)
2011 Average margin of victory: 28 (39-11 avg scoreline)
2015 Average margin of victory: 24 (37-13 avg scoreline)
2019 Average margin of victory: 29 (40-11 avg scoreline) *Includes Scotland's battering of Russia today

The emergence of professional rugby in the early/mid-90s saw an increase in lop-sided results. Japan being the first team to concede more than 100-points in 1995.

As the years went by things became a little more competitive and no team has conceded more than a hundred points since 2007. 2019 seems to be a little rougher on the minnows than in the past few World Cups.

What I picked up going through the scores;
- Canada were very, very competitive in the early tournaments. Their slide backwards seemed to coincide with the rise of professionalism.
- The US was miles ahead of Japan. Like Canada, it seems as if professionalism left them behind.
- Japan's turn around has been immense. Not even teams like Romania and Uruguay have been subjected to the thrashings they were in the early tournaments. But they have gone from one of the worst to knocking on the door of tier 1.
- The Pacific Islanders have always been hit and miss, good on their day, woeful the next. Not much has changed for them.
- Namibia have made massive improvements as well. They were frequently losing by 50-plus points against tier 2 nations.

 

[Sl8er]

Now if only Fiji didn't lose to Uruguay this would have mattered.

True, but it puts a massive amount of doubt in Wales' minds -who we will in all likelihood face in the semi's.
If Fiji beats them or gives them a major go, they "know" they're going to lose to us -even if it might not be true

 

[daveza]

Wow ! What a try !

 

[Creag]

Fly-half Dan Biggar has left the game with a suspected head injury.

Seems to be a fragile lad, or just having a tough time at the moment?

 

[Arthur AnymoreDonuts]

Seems to be a fragile lad, or just having a tough time at the moment?

That was a proper knock to the head.

 

[Agent_Smith]

Almost inconceivable to think that for the second world cup in a row, Japan might get knocked out despite winning 3 games. One wonders if they have enough in the tank to overcome Scotland who would've picked up some much needed momentum heading in their final pool match.

 

[sand_man]

Great game! WOW! brilliant!

 

[sand_man]

That was a proper knock to the head.

Yeah. Looked concussed to me...

 

[Fulcrum29]

The emergence of professional rugby in the early/mid-90s saw an increase in lop-sided results. Japan being the first team to concede more than 100-points in 1995.

As much as it were the case on that day, Japan committed a close to complete third-string team on that day. The combined caps between their 9 and 10 at that time was 5. Their no.13 earned his one and only cap on that day, and the backline was pretty much wingers whinging it. They did, however, play their most experienced hooker (c) and props on the day. The best team went out to play against Ireland (50-28), and that was their 1995 RWC.

Rugby in Japan is old, it is older than the RFU. Yokohama Country & Athletic Club (YCAC) dates back to 1868 (Formation date),

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2019/09/06/rugby/yokohama-commemorates-rugby-history-ahead-rwc/

The Yokohama Foot Ball Club was established as early as 1866, two years before the Meiji Restoration which ended the rule of the feudal Tokugawa shogunate, according to a news article from the then-Yokohama-based Japan Times dated Jan. 26, 1866.

For a long time, it was believed that rugby was introduced in Japan in 1899 when English lecturer Edward Bramwell Clarke and a friend, Ginnosuke Tanaka, taught the sport to students at Keio University.

In 2015, however, the World Rugby Museum in Twickenham, England, recognized the Yokohama club as the oldest in Asia.

Mike Galbraith, an English rugby historian in Japan, provided the evidence that led to the museum’s declaration.

“I am very glad that my efforts bore fruit 10 years after I discovered the history,” Galbraith told reporters after the unveiling of the plaque.

The Yokohama Foot Ball Club merged with the Yokohama Cricket Club in 1884 and changed its name to the Yokohama Country and Athletic Club in 1912 and continues to operate under that name today.

What the article doesn’t tell you is that it was mostly a Westernised club. Japanese people did play rugby, but there was a ‘privilege’ to play rugby amongst the Europeans.

Anyway, most Japanese rugby players are only exposed to the game at university, which is remarkable seeing how quickly they develop. The problem is that there are only 3 big rugby universities with one being dominant. Rugby is scarcely played at school, and it is mostly a touch rugby medium.

Japanese corporations have owned their own rugby clubs since the 1900s. Suntory Goliath is now close to 40 years old. The Industrial League, the Top League, was inaugurated in 2003 in cooperation with the JRFU. Wales won’t openly admit it, but they lost to Suntory in 2001. Beaten by company men…

The Top League has dramatically changed since its introduction. A very hot debate, mind you. Their player exposure is changing, there are talented Japanese players playing in the Mitre 10. Two, prominent, Japanese players are on loan within the Top 14 though neither have been given any game time.

Japan is hot and cold in the Western view. They may be applauded, but they aren’t really given many opportunities. Their stint in Super Rugby was to exploit the Asian market. They targeted Singapore more so than Japan, and it didn’t work out Singapore.

SARU don’t like Japan, the Northern Hemisphere doesn’t like Japan and Japan is only really backed by Australia and New Zealand. Japan needs to be good at this RWC, they need to upset their opposition at the round table.

Like most island-based teams, Japanese players are paid by their respective clubs and universities to represent the JRFU.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/nov/12/japan-rugby-players-paid-13-pounds-per-day

Expenses spared: Japan’s rugby union players are being paid just £13 per day

If Eddie Jones’s warning that they will be “physically smashed” against England on Saturday was not jarring enough for Japan’s players, their coach has revealed his squad are being paid only £13.64 a day (2,000 yen) to represent their country.

That amount does not even cover a steak (£19.45) or burger with chips (£13.75) at their trendy south-west London hotel and is a lot less than England’s 23-man squad who are on £25,000 a match per man.

However, Jamie Joseph said his team are more concerned about making their mark at Twickenham than any financial reward. “Our guys here who are amateur, they are employees of companies, they get 2,000 yen a day. While our professional players, the foreigners we have in our team, don’t get paid for playing for Japan.

This is also the reason why you won’t see too many ethnic quality ‘players’ in the team. 1) company men and 2) salaries. Japanese university students have higher ambitions than to play rugby. Kenki Fukuoka is also retiring, this will be his last RWC, but he will represent at the Olympics – The man wants to become a medical practitioner.

Japan can improve more, should the universities and companies have a bigger stake in the sport, but there are relentless clashes between them and the JRFU. JRFU, however, now have a new chairman, and board, who is all in to improve these relations. It was only recently to see the Panasonic Wild Knights make a historical move to recruit a university player, allowing a sports bursary. The Sunwovles could have been in a much better place managed by the Industrial League managed by an elected body than by a Super Rugby committee where Japan had little input and no input within SANZAAR. The 'new' JRFU will change the sport in Asia, and may even pull the Aussies and Kiwis into a whole new competition when SARU is looking at moving to the TOP 14.

They are emerging in test rugby, but rugby has 'always' been good in their country and they have been building since 2003. Those who say that Top League is schit, don't watch Top League, it close to the same as the Mitre 10.

 

[losta]

How many sleeping giants of world rugby are we allowed? I'd say Japan is more of a sleeping giant than USA... Look at their progress over the last 20 years.

One real sleeping giant is Germany.
80 million inhabitants, lots of big cities and (contrary to US) no competition from American Football.
Many big guys are thrown out of a football career (because of being too fat), but they would come in good use in rugby where fat percentage doesn't come into play too much

Another sleeping giant are the Netherlands with its strong body building culture and between 2 and 3 percent of the males above 2 meters height. They could play the game with just locks if they wanted

 

[thestaggy]

As much as it were the case on that day, Japan committed a close to complete third-string team on that day. The combined caps between their 9 and 10 at that time was 5. Their no.13 earned his one and only cap on that day, and the backline was pretty much wingers whinging it. They did, however, play their most experienced hooker (c) and props on the day. The best team went out to play against Ireland (50-28), and that was their 1995 RWC.

Rugby in Japan is old, it is older than the RFU. Yokohama Country & Athletic Club (YCAC) dates back to 1868 (Formation date),

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2019/09/06/rugby/yokohama-commemorates-rugby-history-ahead-rwc/



What the article doesn’t tell you is that it was mostly a Westernised club. Japanese people did play rugby, but there was a ‘privilege’ to play rugby amongst the Europeans.

Anyway, most Japanese rugby players are only exposed to the game at university, which is remarkable seeing how quickly they develop. The problem is that there are only 3 big rugby universities with one being dominant. Rugby is scarcely played at school, and it is mostly a touch rugby medium.

Japanese corporations have owned their own rugby clubs since the 1900s. Suntory Goliath is now close to 40 years old. The Industrial League, the Top League, was inaugurated in 2003 in cooperation with the JRFU. Wales won’t openly admit it, but they lost to Suntory in 2001. Beaten by company men…

The Top League has dramatically changed since its introduction. A very hot debate, mind you. Their player exposure is changing, there are talented Japanese players playing in the Mitre 10. Two, prominent, Japanese players are on loan within the Top 14 though neither have been given any game time.

Japan is hot and cold in the Western view. They may be applauded, but they aren’t really given many opportunities. Their stint in Super Rugby was to exploit the Asian market. They targeted Singapore more so than Japan, and it didn’t work out Singapore.

SARU don’t like Japan, the Northern Hemisphere doesn’t like Japan and Japan is only really backed by Australia and New Zealand. Japan needs to be good at this RWC, they need to upset their opposition at the round table.

Like most island-based teams, Japanese players are paid by their respective clubs and universities to represent the JRFU.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/nov/12/japan-rugby-players-paid-13-pounds-per-day



This is also the reason why you won’t see too many ethnic quality ‘players’ in the team. 1) company men and 2) salaries. Japanese university students have higher ambitions than to play rugby. Kenki Fukuoka is also retiring, this will be his last RWC, but he will represent at the Olympics – The man wants to become a medical practitioner.

Japan can improve more, should the universities and companies have a bigger stake in the sport, but there are relentless clashes between them and the JRFU. JRFU, however, now have a new chairman, and board, who is all in to improve these relations. It was only recently to see the Panasonic Wild Knights make a historical move to recruit a university player, allowing a sports bursary. The Sunwovles could have been in a much better place managed by the Industrial League managed by an elected body than by a Super Rugby committee where Japan had little input and no input within SANZAAR. The 'new' JRFU will change the sport in Asia, and may even pull the Aussies and Kiwis into a whole new competition when SARU is looking at moving to the TOP 14.

They are emerging in test rugby, but rugby has 'always' been good in their country and they have been building since 2003. Those who say that Top League is schit, don't watch Top League, it close to the same as the Mitre 10.

Good post.

There has been significant improvement though.

Between the 1987 - 2011 their record read:

P-24; W-1 (1991 against Zimbabwe); D-2; L-21; PF-428; PA-1159; PD- (-731)
Average scoreline: 18-48

Since 2015:

P-7; W-6; L-1; PF-185; PA-141; PD- (+44)
Average scoreline: 26-20

Its remarkable. In an 8-year cycle they have nearly halved the amount of points they concede and have improved on attack.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Good post.

There has been significant improvement though.

Between the 1987 - 2011 their record read:

P-24; W-1 (1991 against Zimbabwe); D-2; L-21; PF-428; PA-1159; PD- (-731)
Average scoreline: 18-48

Since 2015:

P-7; W-6; L-1; PF-185; PA-141; PD- (+44)
Average scoreline: 26-20

Its remarkable. In an 8-year cycle they have nearly halved the amount of points they concede and have improved on attack.

Foreign expertise helped them tune their test rugby, remember they have a limited selection come to national duty.

French coach (2005-2006)

Johan Kirwan (2007-2011)

Eddie Jones (2012-2015)

Mark Hammet (interim)

Jamie Joseph (2016-)

Not too many people may like what I am going to say, especially some Japan rugby pundits, but Kirwan sank Japan. Foreign rugby and players were promoted above all.

Jones corrected the damage done by Kirwan. Joseph built on Jones, but regrettably, though Joseph is now being recognised he has done very little to promote the Japanese youth. I now believe his plan was to deliver an acceptable result at this RWC, then to bring the youth into the national development channels and relinquish the coaching to another coach in 2021 where he may either return to New Zealand or continue as a director serving the JRFU which will give him space to move between New Zealand and Japan.

Not a single player which Jones said will be the next big Japanese stars have played at this RWC. Japan’s most heroic player is Kazuki Himeno which is 25, and he was recruited by Joseph, and this guy is likely to be Japan’s next captain.

They do have good ethnic coaches, but with very little international exposure. The Sunwolves is now being coached by a Japanese coach, and it will be interesting to see what he can turn up in 2020 and I really hope that they shop in-house this time around.

All I know is, Joseph will be high in demand. Listening to the Kiwi panel the other day they already speculated about the All Blacks bringing in the Trio. The Trio being Joseph, Tony Brown and Scott Hansen. I must add, the little time John Plumtree spent with the Japanese squad made them monstrous in their tackles. Their tackle success rate is averaging above 90%, and that also against Ireland.

For now. I hope Japan turn up at the quarters. They will send Typhoon Haggis back to Scotland.

Springboks 1st, but it is damn hard to place Japan 2nd in my heart.

 

[daveza]

Unconfirmed reports say the England vs France game is off.