3G vs WISP access speed

[gerasmus]

Hi All,
I live in rural backwater part of South Africa, in the middle of nowhere and way out of reach from ADSL. My main internet access is via a WISP.
How does Vodacom (I have Vodacom 3G) deliver data services/access to rural parts of the country ? My understanding is that there is no fibre linking Ellisras to civilization. Our closest neighborung town, a village is 110km away,and Pretoria CBD 305km via road. How is the data delivered ? Via a microwave link to a central base station, or transmitted from one tower to the next ?
I understand that on wireless there is factors like amount of users, signal strenghth, distance from the tower, USB data card data capabilities, equipment installed in tower etc. that can affect speed and performance.

Why am I able to get much higher up/download speeds on 3G in rural South Africa, but when using WISP I am getting much MUCH slower speeds ? Shouldn't the WISP's bonded ADSL, chopped into pieces and then re-sold, be delivering better performance ?

- Considering I live in the rural platteland, why am I able to receive a minimum of 120k p/sec in peak time with signal strenght at 2/5 on 3G ? In off-peak I can receive anything from 230k-430k p/sec on 3G. Able to do online gaming but data costs too expensive for online gaming.
- When using my WISP in peak time (1mb line) I can barely get 15k p/sec ? During off-peak I can be lucky if I get 35k p/sec. I still can't use webradio (even 96bit and lower). When using WISP, if a low-res Youtube videos loads in 10-15 minutes I consider this to be fast loading. Imagine how futile it is 90% of the time to try watch a youtube. Unable to do online gaming due to lack of bandwidth and jitter. I also don't have much of a choice here as the alternative WISP in town is even more expensive. I have asked my WISP what's going on and I can never get a straight answer. I am sure my Screamer WISP would love to see the back of me, get rid of me as a client.

Just so that there is no confusion, this is where I live. Get out your http://maps.google.nl and point GPS coordinates -23.689418, 27.74022. The town is Ellisras (nowadays Lephalale) en Limpopo.

 

[portcullis]

They probably have a leased line over Telkom from the NOC in Midrand to a main site someplace near you.

Other towers will probably be linked to that main site via microwave.

 

[murray654]

Hi,

A lot of vilages now have ADSL.

I typed in the Elisras Municipality phone number into the telkom DSL Checker:

Telephone number 0147632193
Adsl Support The exchange supports ADSL.

I imagine this mean there is fibre to Elisras? There is fibre to my closest village, Bergville, but its 46km away. So we have no 3G and no ADSL. But we do have Screamer.

We have problems with Screamer, but your speed is terrible and is surely due to some local problem. What's your packet loss like?

My usual test is to type this into windows cmd prompt: ping www.screamer.co.za -n 40 -w 250

Currently I have 5% packet loss - our speed is normally 500Kb/s. When packet loss increases to 30 % then I phone them because then pages fail to load and download speed is bad, not as bad as yours, but bad enough.

If you have >10% packet loss, jump all over your local agent. We have their voice service, because then they have to provide a decent speed and minimum packet loss, or it just wont work. Its great to use it to phone them for free and complain, because then they can hear how bad the connection is. We pay R92 month for the luxury, but I think its worth it as they do make a better effort.

I dont trust the screamer speedtest, but use speedtest.net.

BTW that speed you are getting on 3G is surely not 3G. We are able to get similar speeds on 2G Vodacom here (which is our backup provider). In our experience Screamer is 4x faster than Vodacom 2G. Our complaint with screamer lately is downtime - we were offline 12 days out of the previous 70 days. And its winter now. Normally the problems come with the thunderstorms in summer.

You also should have your own equipment checked, that was my problem for a long time, Zerowire kit which was originally installed by their agent. This eventually failed. When we replaced it with Mikrotik kit, and we had a good run, up until May.

Wireless is a strange animal. My wireless can be fine, and my neighbour can be offline. I'd like to see the back of it, but I dont see ADSL reachin us in the next 5 years. So its Screamer when its up and Vodacom when its down.

Cheers,

Murray

 

[gerasmus]

Hi,

A lot of vilages now have ADSL.

I typed in the Elisras Municipality phone number into the telkom DSL Checker:

Wireless is a strange animal. My wireless can be fine, and my neighbour can be offline. I'd like to see the back of it, but I dont see ADSL reachin us in the next 5 years. So its Screamer when its up and Vodacom when its down.

Hi Murray,
I agree, a lot of villages (might) have ADSL, if one's lucky enough to live within range of ADSL.

From a question I've asked on another part of this forum it seems that Vodacom data services might originate from Midrand and then get relayed, possibly by leased line, to Ellisras.
Is there any way to find out if one's rural town has fibre laid from cilization ?

I don't think the Telkom exchange checker can be very reliable. I've typed in my home number and the reply came back that the exchange is ADSL enabled. It's alsmost useless because it doesn't tell you if one can actually get ADSL, it gives no idication of cooper wire lenngth.
There are farms that are 30, 40, or even 50kms from the exchange. They also have 014-763 (which is the usual prefix for number in Ellisras) numbers. Does that mean that those farms are connected via a 40km copper wire to the exchange. That is another reason why I don't find the ADSL checker as reliable.

There are two WISPs in town here. I know both the owner/operators personally. One is operating under a license from Express Networks, and I thiknk they have their HQ in Polokwane/Pietersburg and the other WISP is operating under a Screamer license. When I asked them the following: "If I install a 4mb line, what would be the maximum and minimum speeds I could hope for in peak time in Ellisras. Taking into account conection ratio's, distances, etc". None of them have answered me yet. They start talking about what great network they are building, all the bandwidth they have coming from Midrand.
No one could answer me yet. With a 4mb line, in peak time, will I be able to get at least 150k p/sec in Ellisras ?

One of the reasons I want to have all the questions answered is because I want to install my own private link on a high-site. It just so happens that my family own the highest building (other than the Telkom tower) in town and have line of sight for several kilometers. It's very flat terrain where we live. I want to be sure that I can get the maximum speed over wireless. It's going to be 6km from point-to-point.

Since I've been using Screamer WISP I've never had any connection troubles. It's always on. When I get home I will try the previous mentioned command line commands to measure the packet loss. Even just a mimum of 150k p/sec would make me happy because at least I would then be able to do webradio, youtube and online gaming.

 

[murray654]

I agree, a lot of villages (might) have ADSL, if one's lucky enough to live within range of ADSL.

From a question I've asked on another part of this forum it seems that Vodacom data services might originate from Midrand and then get relayed, possibly by leased line, to Ellisras.
Is there any way to find out if one's rural town has fibre laid from cilization ?

I don't think the Telkom exchange checker can be very reliable. I've typed in my home number and the reply came back that the exchange is ADSL enabled. It's alsmost useless because it doesn't tell you if one can actually get ADSL, it gives no idication of cooper wire lenngth.
There are farms that are 30, 40, or even 50kms from the exchange. They also have 014-763 (which is the usual prefix for number in Ellisras) numbers. Does that mean that those farms are connected via a 40km copper wire to the exchange. That is another reason why I don't find the ADSL checker as reliable.

Well, I think its difficult to provide ADSL or 3G in a village without Fibre being there first. How would Telkom provide the bandwidth that would be required?

My theory may be flawed but its based on what I see. I see 3G and ADSL on offer, and I hear that there is fibre there. EG: There is Fibre into Champagne Valley in the Drakensberg. There is ADSL at one of the resorts there. 3G I cant confirm. The ADSL only appeared after the fibre did. Telkom have used fibre to link a 2G base station down the road into the local exchange 2km from there. The exchanges still use microwave, so therefore no ADSL or 3G is on offer. I think the 2G tower has fibre for future use: its there so in future Vodacom can offer 3G when fibre arrives at the local exchange.

Is the ADSL line checker reliable? I dont know - reputable service providers still refer you to it to check if its available in your area.

There are two WISPs in town here. I know both the owner/operators personally. One is operating under a license from Express Networks, and I thiknk they have their HQ in Polokwane/Pietersburg and the other WISP is operating under a Screamer license. When I asked them the following: "If I install a 4mb line, what would be the maximum and minimum speeds I could hope for in peak time in Ellisras. Taking into account conection ratio's, distances, etc". None of them have answered me yet. They start talking about what great network they are building, all the bandwidth they have coming from Midrand.
No one could answer me yet. With a 4mb line, in peak time, will I be able to get at least 150k p/sec in Ellisras ?

150k p/sec = ? Are you talking kbps or kBps There are 8 bits in a Byte. A 4 meg line would give you 512kB per second if it was working properly. Your 1meg line would give you 128kBps.

One of the reasons I want to have all the questions answered is because I want to install my own private link on a high-site. It just so happens that my family own the highest building (other than the Telkom tower) in town and have line of sight for several kilometers. It's very flat terrain where we live. I want to be sure that I can get the maximum speed over wireless. It's going to be 6km from point-to-point.

With the right wifi equipment, and assuming that there is no interference, you can get up to a 4 meg per second connection. But its not suitable for Gaming. See below.

Since I've been using Screamer WISP I've never had any connection troubles. It's always on. When I get home I will try the previous mentioned command line commands to measure the packet loss. Even just a mimum of 150k p/sec would make me happy because at least I would then be able to do webradio, youtube and online gaming.

One Screamer client who I met says he gets close to the 1mb download speed that he is paying for. He says he transmits an online radio show using his connection. He lives a bit closer to Harrismith, maybe 20km.

We are 68km by road from Harrismith and the Drakensberg mountains are between us and Harrismith. But we still get close to 512kbps that we pay for. (but they say they cant give us 1meg)

According to youtube the minimum requirement is 500kbps. Even with 512kbps, I still have to pause videos and wait for them to load 75% before I play them.

For online gaming, your requirement would depend on the game, and the server you are connecting to. I think wireless is lousy for online gaming. For starters you need very low latency. What happens to the latency when other users on your tower all start downloading the latest episode of whatever? My latency to www.screamer.co.za is 206ms today. I have no clue whether this would allow me to play online games.

The WoW website says

Is the game playable over a Wireless or Satellite connection? No, these are not supported connection types. While the game may play there are expectations of high latency, lag or disconnects involved. You can check your Internet provider's website for their Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's) section.

Note the screamer website does not mention WiFi anymore, only WiMax, so whatever they promise, if you are on WiFi, you dont qualify.

Screamer need to stop talking and start to deliver. In a meeting with a Screamer official in may we were promised 24hour turn around for highsites that are offline. Since then we were offline twice for longer than 5 days. Point is you cant believe the Screamer promises. They switch to that talk about building their superior network to duck the hard questions.