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- Thread starter John
- Start date
More so than the article, the posts from readers proved to be greatly entertaining! If one thing did come through for me, it's the fact that any project of this sort *must* be initiated with full cooperation from all concerned, and that total stakeholder buy-in is imperative. This implies not only those who would directly benefit, but also those who have an indirect interest, whether their focus be national or local, regulatory or commercial, service-oriented or otherwise.
So... attempts to thwart legal constraints by using a 'hobo on the hill', will probably have as much success as your wish to meet the man on the moon...
So... attempts to thwart legal constraints by using a 'hobo on the hill', will probably have as much success as your wish to meet the man on the moon...
yeah interesting angstrom i saw i think on bbc the other day that in britain theyre smashing those cameras like nothing theres even a organisation dedicated to just destroying street cameras.....cause according to em it limits theyre freedom of privacy.
k*k story they just wanna be speeding everywhere.[
]
New service by Telkom broadband speeds up to 5kbps for only R1k a month. heheh
k*k story they just wanna be speeding everywhere.[
]New service by Telkom broadband speeds up to 5kbps for only R1k a month. heheh
stevedavies
Member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2003
- Messages
- 20
Hi,
A little correction on an earlier post by John. Sentech is not using a VANS licence for their MyWireless service. They have a "Multimedia" licence - something only they and Telkom have.
Steve
A little correction on an earlier post by John. Sentech is not using a VANS licence for their MyWireless service. They have a "Multimedia" licence - something only they and Telkom have.
Steve
antowan
Honorary Master
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2003
- Messages
- 13,054
Hi
Does that mean we can expect some multimedia (perhaps as part of their license contract) offerings through Sentech? Perhaps streaming audio of some sort? Seeing as they already are responsible for broadcasting most radio stations like 5Fm and Jacaranda 94.2 we might be able to listen to those stations in areas where they aren't as easy to pickup...
Cheers
Antowan
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by stevedavies</i>
<br />Hi,
A little correction on an earlier post by John. Sentech is not using a VANS licence for their MyWireless service. They have a "Multimedia" licence - something only they and Telkom have.
Steve
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous
Does that mean we can expect some multimedia (perhaps as part of their license contract) offerings through Sentech? Perhaps streaming audio of some sort? Seeing as they already are responsible for broadcasting most radio stations like 5Fm and Jacaranda 94.2 we might be able to listen to those stations in areas where they aren't as easy to pickup...
Cheers
Antowan
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by stevedavies</i>
<br />Hi,
A little correction on an earlier post by John. Sentech is not using a VANS licence for their MyWireless service. They have a "Multimedia" licence - something only they and Telkom have.
Steve
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous
<font color="blue"><i><b>Andries Matthysen's phone number is 011 321 8377</b></i></font id="blue">If you want to get any usefull info out of him, don't antagonise him with our scheme of using council to route our signals. Tell him you are a concerned Telkom shareholder, and you want to know how Icasa is going to stop private people who are not doing it on a commercial basis from emulating www.wisp.co.za
Icasa is the lapdog of the ANC , they do exactly what the ANC tells them to do. And the ANC told them that www.wisp.co.za is providing
the ANC ABED programs.
What stiffed Oom Andries, was that his own little fiefdom he is ruling
over did not get any bucks out of this, it's got zip to do with
100mw. Andries is an engineer, and no amount of explaining the Fresnel
effect to him could convice him that shooting a 2.4ghz signal over
a 15km distance has zippo effect on the omni's below that beam.
Icasa is the lapdog of the ANC , they do exactly what the ANC tells them to do. And the ANC told them that www.wisp.co.za is providing
the ANC ABED programs.
What stiffed Oom Andries, was that his own little fiefdom he is ruling
over did not get any bucks out of this, it's got zip to do with
100mw. Andries is an engineer, and no amount of explaining the Fresnel
effect to him could convice him that shooting a 2.4ghz signal over
a 15km distance has zippo effect on the omni's below that beam.
I can understand why the wireless ISP's are telling fibs.
Andries was adamant that He has given nobody but Sentech permission
to deploy wireless, he said they are all lying.
The wisp's are just engaging in PR with their clients.
They know full well that the commercial crimes division of the SAPS
will never take action against them, and are telling these stories
about Icasa testing their towers, paying a million rand ect., to calm down their clients.
I spoke over two hours with Andries and a black lawyer at Icasa to get
down to exactly how they pursue this issue and the law. THE MOMENT
YOU do a COMMERCIAl advertisement for your wireless service, you
are in Icasa's cross-hairs. But if Icasa can't even move against
these commercial providers, what could they possibly do against a
community effort with no central person to lay a charge against.?
What became crystal clear in the hour long discussion with Andries, with me masquarading as a concerned Telkom shareholder, was that we don't even need local council to pull this whole thing of. Your private house is your Castle and no policeman is going to start testing the signal strength of your parabolic... this is CLOUD-COO-COO land not AMERICA - it just won't happen !
Especially with the Icasa directive legalising private Hotspots.
Andries stressed to me that their only hope of a case against Wisp is
getting a client to testify that they received a signal from them,
AND THAT THEY PAID WISP for this service. The whole angle is about
revenue generation without a license not DATA crossing the street, BECAUSE SENTECH's data is also crossing the street !, making that
law irrelevent. Not one single testcase has gone to court on the
DATA crossing the street issue, before Sentech got it's license, how
could there possibly now be a court case concerning this, based on the
old 1994 law ? Andries will spin to you that it is still relevent, but cant refer to a single test case.
With our scheme there are no contracts and no central person anybody
could point a finger to. If you are really scared stiff of Andries
you could always mount the backhaul parabolic antenna on a Council street light.
All fears of getting sex education should be laid to rest. If you are
still in doubt phone Andries, make as if you are on his side, and
ask the main man yourself!
A REQUEST:
I want to compile this entire thread into two A4 pages, put up a website and advertise in the newspapers the seamingly unknown fact that nobody can stop us from wireless community based internet.
Would anybody who's grammer is a bit better than mine help me with this. I don't want to post my email on the forum, the spider bots spam
me out of existance, just reply to the forum.
Andries was adamant that He has given nobody but Sentech permission
to deploy wireless, he said they are all lying.
The wisp's are just engaging in PR with their clients.
They know full well that the commercial crimes division of the SAPS
will never take action against them, and are telling these stories
about Icasa testing their towers, paying a million rand ect., to calm down their clients.
I spoke over two hours with Andries and a black lawyer at Icasa to get
down to exactly how they pursue this issue and the law. THE MOMENT
YOU do a COMMERCIAl advertisement for your wireless service, you
are in Icasa's cross-hairs. But if Icasa can't even move against
these commercial providers, what could they possibly do against a
community effort with no central person to lay a charge against.?
What became crystal clear in the hour long discussion with Andries, with me masquarading as a concerned Telkom shareholder, was that we don't even need local council to pull this whole thing of. Your private house is your Castle and no policeman is going to start testing the signal strength of your parabolic... this is CLOUD-COO-COO land not AMERICA - it just won't happen !
Especially with the Icasa directive legalising private Hotspots.
Andries stressed to me that their only hope of a case against Wisp is
getting a client to testify that they received a signal from them,
AND THAT THEY PAID WISP for this service. The whole angle is about
revenue generation without a license not DATA crossing the street, BECAUSE SENTECH's data is also crossing the street !, making that
law irrelevent. Not one single testcase has gone to court on the
DATA crossing the street issue, before Sentech got it's license, how
could there possibly now be a court case concerning this, based on the
old 1994 law ? Andries will spin to you that it is still relevent, but cant refer to a single test case.
With our scheme there are no contracts and no central person anybody
could point a finger to. If you are really scared stiff of Andries
you could always mount the backhaul parabolic antenna on a Council street light.
All fears of getting sex education should be laid to rest. If you are
still in doubt phone Andries, make as if you are on his side, and
ask the main man yourself!
A REQUEST:
I want to compile this entire thread into two A4 pages, put up a website and advertise in the newspapers the seamingly unknown fact that nobody can stop us from wireless community based internet.
Would anybody who's grammer is a bit better than mine help me with this. I don't want to post my email on the forum, the spider bots spam
me out of existance, just reply to the forum.
You have a couple good ideas. There are a couple points that I don’t totally support.
The type of WAN you want to implement was never a really big risk. As you said there is no central person to point fingers at and most likely wont even loose an antenna or two. If it happened that ICASA made a multimedia license available to private owned companies for a couple million, would it not be unfair that your network runs without paying for a license while Wireless ISP's have to spend huge sums of money to do the same thing? Commercial or non commercial, at the end of the day you saved R800.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The whole angle is about revenue generation without a license not DATA crossing the street, BECAUSE SENTECH's data is also crossing the street !, making that
law irrelevent
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Scanning through the license notice that was issued to sentech, as I understand it, sentech is licensed to do telecommunication anywhere in SA, which does not make the law irrelevant... they are licensed to do so for multimedia service "but not mobile cellular telecommunication services and public switched telecommunication services".
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Andries was adamant that He has given nobody but Sentech permission
to deploy wireless, he said they are all lying.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Mr Matthysen does not have the authority to give anyone permission to do so. From what I gathered only the minister of comms have that authority. Hopefully the next minister of communication is a very generous person.
What I do agree with is that Wireless can not be monopolised by sentech.
The opposite of war is not peace, It's creation
Jonathan Larson Rent
The type of WAN you want to implement was never a really big risk. As you said there is no central person to point fingers at and most likely wont even loose an antenna or two. If it happened that ICASA made a multimedia license available to private owned companies for a couple million, would it not be unfair that your network runs without paying for a license while Wireless ISP's have to spend huge sums of money to do the same thing? Commercial or non commercial, at the end of the day you saved R800.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The whole angle is about revenue generation without a license not DATA crossing the street, BECAUSE SENTECH's data is also crossing the street !, making that
law irrelevent
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Scanning through the license notice that was issued to sentech, as I understand it, sentech is licensed to do telecommunication anywhere in SA, which does not make the law irrelevant... they are licensed to do so for multimedia service "but not mobile cellular telecommunication services and public switched telecommunication services".
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Andries was adamant that He has given nobody but Sentech permission
to deploy wireless, he said they are all lying.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Mr Matthysen does not have the authority to give anyone permission to do so. From what I gathered only the minister of comms have that authority. Hopefully the next minister of communication is a very generous person.
What I do agree with is that Wireless can not be monopolised by sentech.
The opposite of war is not peace, It's creation
Jonathan Larson Rent
Your comments are legally correct according to the letter of the
law. In my discussion with Andries I got behind his interpretation
of the law and the police, courts willingness to enforce stupid
laws. Remember it is Andries who lays the criminal charges, nobody
else, if HE DOES NOT TAKE ACTION, then nobody will ! He is the
enforcer.
So I am trying to get accross the innerworkings machinations of
Icasa and exactly how hard and how far they are willing to push an
issue. As he freely admitted to me "Ons vlerkies is geknip wat betrer
wireless".
He admitted that he sees the ANC getting rid of it's Telkom
shareholding and allowing an increase in market forces as time progresses. What he as the enforcer want's out of this
whole telecoms thing is MONEY, what is anathema to them is people
making money out of telecoms signals without ICASA getting their share. And it is from this angle that they will pursue to enforce the
law not from DATA crossing streets, nomatter what the law says.
And ofcourse he will take legal action to get your parabolic of the
mountain and you WILL get in trouble if you keep on putting the
antenna back, which is why I had a suggestion for making
somebody else take the rap.
It met with polite derision, if anybody has an alternative legal
way then please let us all know !
law. In my discussion with Andries I got behind his interpretation
of the law and the police, courts willingness to enforce stupid
laws. Remember it is Andries who lays the criminal charges, nobody
else, if HE DOES NOT TAKE ACTION, then nobody will ! He is the
enforcer.
So I am trying to get accross the innerworkings machinations of
Icasa and exactly how hard and how far they are willing to push an
issue. As he freely admitted to me "Ons vlerkies is geknip wat betrer
wireless".
He admitted that he sees the ANC getting rid of it's Telkom
shareholding and allowing an increase in market forces as time progresses. What he as the enforcer want's out of this
whole telecoms thing is MONEY, what is anathema to them is people
making money out of telecoms signals without ICASA getting their share. And it is from this angle that they will pursue to enforce the
law not from DATA crossing streets, nomatter what the law says.
And ofcourse he will take legal action to get your parabolic of the
mountain and you WILL get in trouble if you keep on putting the
antenna back, which is why I had a suggestion for making
somebody else take the rap.
It met with polite derision, if anybody has an alternative legal
way then please let us all know !
Im fully in support of the network just as a warning. the riaa has tracked down ppl downloading from kazaa and the likes and sued them for illegally distributing music.
Now for instance if ICASA wanted to shut us down would the fact that if someone was sharing their music folder enable them to bring legal action against those users and also try to shut the network down( ala Napster's downfall).
also check this site out for something that might make the mesh network much easier
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/23/HNwimax_1.html
probably not cost effective for us cause the article speaks about ISP's buying it and when that happens u know it aint gonna be cheap[^]
but just imagine the network could then be localised and ppl could actually contribute the whole time by not paying say service fees but rather admin support.
New service by Telkom broadband speeds up to 5kbps for only R1k a month. heheh
Now for instance if ICASA wanted to shut us down would the fact that if someone was sharing their music folder enable them to bring legal action against those users and also try to shut the network down( ala Napster's downfall).
also check this site out for something that might make the mesh network much easier
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/23/HNwimax_1.html
probably not cost effective for us cause the article speaks about ISP's buying it and when that happens u know it aint gonna be cheap[^]
but just imagine the network could then be localised and ppl could actually contribute the whole time by not paying say service fees but rather admin support.
New service by Telkom broadband speeds up to 5kbps for only R1k a month. heheh
This link http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0%2Caid%2C114424%2C00.asp
http://www.stratellite.net/
Describes an airship 20km up in the sky that will provide broadband anywhere in the USA. One such airship could service the entire JHB area. For a couple of million dollars it sure is cheaper than cables.
http://www.stratellite.net/
Describes an airship 20km up in the sky that will provide broadband anywhere in the USA. One such airship could service the entire JHB area. For a couple of million dollars it sure is cheaper than cables.
HI again guys
Just wanna do a ping to find out if there are any other mesh networks set up close to me i know solar is bout 2-4 k's away but is there anyone else in the bellville area up an running?
**sorry forgot to ask. What switches are you using? it seems the linksys one is quite popular but is there anywhere were i can buy it locally?***
Proud South african rip offs.
Just wanna do a ping to find out if there are any other mesh networks set up close to me i know solar is bout 2-4 k's away but is there anyone else in the bellville area up an running?
**sorry forgot to ask. What switches are you using? it seems the linksys one is quite popular but is there anywhere were i can buy it locally?***
Proud South african rip offs.
From the two posts above mine we can see that
www.nodedb.com simply does not work well enough.
You don't need a map , street , area adres is all a person needs
to orient yourself. nodedb server is slow, the email links don't
work, it's a mess.
We need to create our own sa website. Any help with this out?
www.nodedb.com simply does not work well enough.
You don't need a map , street , area adres is all a person needs
to orient yourself. nodedb server is slow, the email links don't
work, it's a mess.
We need to create our own sa website. Any help with this out?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by cAde</i>
<br />here is a place starting up slowly
http://www.jawug.za.net/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Slowly being the operative word, have you tried to use it yet??its down half the time, (including now 01:47)
To view the map or register your node, u need an account, which entails putting down your E-mail addy and waiting for an autoresponder to send you a mail to activate your account, after 2 days waitning I got fed up and registered with a 2nd address, 6 days later, still no response and can't even view the maps.
yesterday I tried clicking the mailto: link on the contacts page, only to get a mailer Daemon autoresponder saying the address could not be reached.
I hope someone from jawug checks this thread and does something about it.
<br />here is a place starting up slowly
http://www.jawug.za.net/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Slowly being the operative word, have you tried to use it yet??its down half the time, (including now 01:47)
To view the map or register your node, u need an account, which entails putting down your E-mail addy and waiting for an autoresponder to send you a mail to activate your account, after 2 days waitning I got fed up and registered with a 2nd address, 6 days later, still no response and can't even view the maps.
yesterday I tried clicking the mailto: link on the contacts page, only to get a mailer Daemon autoresponder saying the address could not be reached.
I hope someone from jawug checks this thread and does something about it.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by John</i>
<br />The ping speeds between two Access points are 5ms. Pinging over a
couple of access points in a 100km range results in a latency of
100ms. 100ms is about the limit for voice over IP and Gaming.
Only at the end of this 100km link is one backhaul link needed into
www.is.co.za peering point for virtually unlimited internet.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
VoIP works at higher than 400ms.. the latency is not typically the problem but dropped packets.
Also, why is everyone looking at IS for solutions?
<br />The ping speeds between two Access points are 5ms. Pinging over a
couple of access points in a 100km range results in a latency of
100ms. 100ms is about the limit for voice over IP and Gaming.
Only at the end of this 100km link is one backhaul link needed into
www.is.co.za peering point for virtually unlimited internet.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
VoIP works at higher than 400ms.. the latency is not typically the problem but dropped packets.
Also, why is everyone looking at IS for solutions?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sentech obtained a VANS lisence from Icasa, to provide wireless service's on a commercial basis. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sentech does not have a license for wireless specifically. They have a multimedia license. ICASA does not issue the multimedia license and cannot provide the requirements. The only thing that ICASA told me was "The license is only issued by invitation from the Minister of Communications". They have no authority over the license.
Sentech does not have a license for wireless specifically. They have a multimedia license. ICASA does not issue the multimedia license and cannot provide the requirements. The only thing that ICASA told me was "The license is only issued by invitation from the Minister of Communications". They have no authority over the license.
Reply from Andries Matthysen to me.
=================
Sir,
I have copied my Manager Enforcement Lee-Ann Cassie in on
this reply to your e-mail. She will take this up and feel free to direct any enquiries to her on
this matter.
regards
Andries
========================
Below is the email I sent to Andries concerning Nelspruit's wi-fi
link. I did this to see if Icasa has any teeth, if they can actually
force council to take down the link. If they can, we are basically
stuffed. Lets see what happens. I am really going to rub this in. I will adverts in the papers documenting Icasa's progress in confiscating Nelspruits towers. I am hoping to cause a legal war between Nelspruit council and Icasa, to see if perhaps a precendent setting case could go to court. To Lee Ann Casey it will be explained
what the consequences will be of a community using council wi-fi
for internet access.
========================
Nelspruit stadsraad het n 2.4ghz link met parabolic antenna's pgestel vanaf Nelspruit na Witrivier. Comparex het die installasie gedoen.
Nelspruit stadsraad het R100 000 betaal vir die link hulle gebruik dit om hulle twee rekenaar netwerke te link. Email my asb of u aksie gaan neem teen hulle of nie. Sover ek weet mag net Telkom so n link opstel en die stadraad moet n Diginet lyn by telkom huur vir so n
link. As n Telkom aandeelhouer is ek besorg oor die manier waarop mense ICASA net summier ignoreer.
=================
Sir,
I have copied my Manager Enforcement Lee-Ann Cassie in on
this reply to your e-mail. She will take this up and feel free to direct any enquiries to her on
this matter.
regards
Andries
========================
Below is the email I sent to Andries concerning Nelspruit's wi-fi
link. I did this to see if Icasa has any teeth, if they can actually
force council to take down the link. If they can, we are basically
stuffed. Lets see what happens. I am really going to rub this in. I will adverts in the papers documenting Icasa's progress in confiscating Nelspruits towers. I am hoping to cause a legal war between Nelspruit council and Icasa, to see if perhaps a precendent setting case could go to court. To Lee Ann Casey it will be explained
what the consequences will be of a community using council wi-fi
for internet access.
========================
Nelspruit stadsraad het n 2.4ghz link met parabolic antenna's pgestel vanaf Nelspruit na Witrivier. Comparex het die installasie gedoen.
Nelspruit stadsraad het R100 000 betaal vir die link hulle gebruik dit om hulle twee rekenaar netwerke te link. Email my asb of u aksie gaan neem teen hulle of nie. Sover ek weet mag net Telkom so n link opstel en die stadraad moet n Diginet lyn by telkom huur vir so n
link. As n Telkom aandeelhouer is ek besorg oor die manier waarop mense ICASA net summier ignoreer.