76.5% of South Africans want a referendum on the dealth penalty

[surface]

According to a report by Christopher Stone at Harvard New Orleans has a higher murder rate than the Western Cape and Gauteng is only slightly worse than Washington DC. Even though the US overall has a much lower rate than South Africa.

noxibox probably refers to this link,

http://www.homecomingrevolution.co.za/?page=2&category_id=99&related_id=1713

 

[Daniedj]

The death penalty cannot be reinstated without rewriting the constitution. Which will have other implications as well.

 

[jontyB]

As a reservist policeman on the beat most weekends I have experienced firsthand how one has to p_u_s_s_y_foot about when dealing with criminals due to the very liberal constitution. Every time we arrest someone there is a question of whether we are infringing on the person's constitutional rights. In many aspects, cops are unsure of what they can and can't do (especially during an arrest situation), and the constitution is squarely to blame, as it is one of the best tools for a defense attorney to get his client of the hook. The constitution is proving to benefit the criminal in SA more and more every day, which may well be a reason South Africa seems to attract so many criminals from other African countries.

 

[kilps]

Ok I have said my views on this before ... so let me repost what I said before ...

Some links which I think sum it up:
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.asp...aking_news/breaking_news__international_news/
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.asp...aking_news/breaking_news__international_news/
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.asp...aking_news/breaking_news__international_news/

By 2000, the state of Illinois had exonerated more death row inmates than it had executed, at which point its governor -- a Republican and long-time death penalty supporter -- declared a moratorium. After conducting a full review, he then commuted the death sentence of every prisoner in the state. "Our capital system is haunted by the demon of error," he said frankly. "Error in determining guilt -- and error in determining who among the guilty deserves to die."

Many states are beginning to wonder whether the death penalty isn't just costing too much already. A typical capital case costs at least three and a half times as much as lifetime incarceration. New Jersey has passed 60 death sentences, overturned 50 on appeal, and still not executed any of the 10 men left on death row. Having spent more than a quarter of a billion dollars executing nobody, it's expected to abolish its death penalty this year.

They are pretty long articles, but I would encourage reading them - pretty insightful...

The main reasons I feel opposed to the death penalty at present are in those two quotes - rather let us send the people who commit these crimes to prison and hard labour for life were they can give something back to the country they took so much from.

 

[Daniedj]

As a reservist policeman on the beat most weekends I have experienced firsthand how one has to p_u_s_s_y_foot about when dealing with criminals due to the very liberal constitution. Every time we arrest someone there is a question of whether we are infringing on the person's constitutional rights. In many aspects, cops are unsure of what they can and can't do (especially during an arrest situation), and the constitution is squarely to blame, as it is one of the best tools for a defense attorney to get his client of the hook. The constitution is proving to benefit the criminal in SA more and more every day, which may well be a reason South Africa seems to attract so many criminals from other African countries.

I totally agree with you JontyB.

 

[jontyB]

kilps: forcing someone to do hard labour is definitely against the constitution, and will never stick.

 

[DigitalSoldier]

kilps: forcing someone to do hard labour is definitely against the constitution, and will never stick.

Thats why I still say we have a horrible crime rate but it seems like we have a 1st world constitution(tooo much crime and criminals with tooo much rights) but still living in a 3rd world country.

 

[kilps]

kilps: forcing someone to do hard labour is definitely against the constitution, and will never stick.

Yes but the constitution can be changed - and rather stick someone in hard labour were they are helping to pay for their upkeep than kill them and spend a lot of money in the process while risking the chance that they are in fact innocent

 

[jontyB]

Yes but the constitution can be changed - and rather stick someone in hard labour were they are helping to pay for their upkeep than kill them and spend a lot of money in the process while risking the chance that they are in fact innocent

It won't fly as it is considered slavery. The ANC will never change the constitution for that - or for the death penalty for that matter.

 

[GreatBigMouth]

Crime would certainly be reduced if they re-instate the death penalty. It's the only way to get those cursed criminals to stop killing innocent people. However, we should not hang them, but rather electrocute or inject them with a lethal substance.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I think something that alot of people miss, or at least the people in power seem to turn a blind eye to, is that alot of very influential people, such as the ANCYL chairman(or whatever) basically come out and say stealing from the whitey is right and just and fair..... not that I'm being racist here, it was just the first example that came to mind, but the point I'm making is that we have leaders and influential people who the masses turn to and believe in, who will flaggerantly ignore what is ethical and moral if it furthers their own aims.

Yes educating the entire country about what is ethical and moral is ultimately the best solution, but can this country survive for the next 40 - 50 years while that policy slowly takes effect. A more radical and much faster solution needs to be found to the problem. I for one do not have the skills or the vision to see what the solution would be, and yes I do agree that in certain cases the death penalty is right, esp the baby raping cases..... I personally feel if someone violates something like a persons right to life, then they lose that constitutional right themselves. Also I really have a problem with the way our prisoners seem to have more rights than other citizens... esp things like voting.... Yes i'm probably opening a HUGE can of worms that will never be solved, but active discussion is always a good thing.

 

[kingrob]

I personally feel the death penalty should be brought back, just maybe it will make a criminal think twice before he pulls the trigger and kills another innocent person.

Maybe we should install via the death penalty threat the value of human life into peoples minds again and to teach them with a real threat that you just don't shoot people for a cellphone or ring.

I remember the gruesome ads that the Arrive Alive campaign launched years ago, with pictures of horrible accidents on huge billboards posted on highways, in town, etc. Really made me think twice about 'getting one last drink for the road' - so I guess their campaign worked, cos I'm still alive.

I think a lot of criminals will think twice before killing people, if they know there is a chance that they might be executed.

All I can say about a baby rapist - Some people deserve to die.

 

[MyDraadloos]

What if it takes the execution of 10 innocent people?

Collateral damage ........ you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

 

[kilo39]

I think a lot of criminals will think twice before killing people, if they know there is a chance that they might be executed.

All I can say about a baby rapist - Some people deserve to die.

Horrific. (But?) it is a fact that the death penalty makes no difference to the murder (or rape) rate (though sane people would wish otherwise.)

Anybody crazed enough to kill doesn't care about the death penalty. Generally crims don't plan on being caught.

Do we take personal responsibility for killing; much as a murderer because that is what killing is no matter the reason or excuse.

I would like to approve the death penalty in horrific fail-safe cases but cannot approve the moral guilt - therefore no death penalty.

And - the death penalty is a slippery slope, once you start killing the horrific murderers all are fair game (the innocent included.)

Here's a present case in point (surely a far more 'trustworthy' justice system than our own?)

New investigation

 

[Jongi]

True, what we really need is for people to be caught and convicted, that's probably the biggest deterrent and then the sentence is secondary. Although it may be a partial deterrent, at least you can't escape after that sentence is handed down.

Of my many thoughts on the bringing back the death sentence to stop crime, i believe the above post best sums up my thoughts.

 

[icyrus]

I agree with the others on this thread who are against the death penalty.

What we need is working police enforcement and judiciary. If most of the crimes were solved and the perpetrators arrested and sentenced accordingly this would not be a problem.

We need improvements throughout the whole process. The unfortunate thing is that it is currently so broken that at best it will take years to fix.

People who call for the death penalty are not thinking clearly. How many criminals even consider the consequences of their actions?

 

[cisco_trouble]

without the death penalty, i'll stock up a coupke of guns, bullets...and shoot and ask questions later. At least i know that with our democracy, murder and self-defence is the same thing.

 

[dlk001]

without the death penalty, i'll stock up a coupke of guns, bullets...and shoot and ask questions later. At least i know that with our democracy, murder and self-defence is the same thing.

Maybe the better solution would be to stock up a couple of bags with clothes and head of to another country before doing something as senseless as that.

 

[cisco_trouble]

the murder rate in this country is senseless....rapists and murderers escaping from prison and courts is senseless. These same people are getting off on bail, in 2yrs, after a pardon...this is senseless. Morally self-defense and murder is not same...is this crime spree morally correct? Think if u the victim? I love this country...but enough is enough...

 

[dlk001]

the murder rate in this country is senseless....rapists and murderers escaping from prison and courts is senseless. These same people are getting off on bail, in 2yrs, after a pardon...this is senseless. Morally self-defense and murder is not same...is this crime spree morally correct? Think if u the victim? I love this country...but enough is enough...

Enough is enough indeed. Crime spree is morally incorrect. Its affecting all of us. It is really bad. We do not need to take Law in our own hands though else we endup being like in the Townships in the old days.