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'A matter of life & death’: 15,000 white South African farmers seek refuge in Russia

surface

Expert Member
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Oct 23, 2006
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Yes and there was a report of a farming association citing 32/33k if I remember correctly.
ok.

"Farmers on small holdings, non-commercial farms or farms with a turnover of less than R300,000 at the time were not recorded in the census."

I suppose for some, these ones are not really important - I mean why to waste time in recording murders of such low life individuals - not likely to fit the "profile"
 

ponder

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Joined
Jan 22, 2005
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The live in dangerous areas because they can’t afford to move to safer areas.
Many can afford it but don't, why? If your combined spousal income is ~R70k pm why stay and I know of several such examples, they're living in nice houses but they could easily move to a much better area.
 

Knyro

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Many can afford it but don't, why? If your combined spousal income is ~R70k pm why stay and I know of several such examples, they're living in nice houses but they could easily move to a much better area.
Nice houses where? Some areas of townships are pretty much like suburbs these days.
 

f2wohf

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ok.

"Farmers on small holdings, non-commercial farms or farms with a turnover of less than R300,000 at the time were not recorded in the census."

I suppose for some, these ones are not really important - I mean why to waste time in recording murders of such low life individuals - not likely to fit the "profile"
Quite the opposite.

The farmers are not counted since there is no way to count how many farm holdings you have except the ones declared to SARS.

Their murders still count as farm murders. Even if you do not grow crops or raise cattle and use the farm as a holiday house, if it's on a rural holding, it counts as a farm murder.

Here's the definition from SAPS of what is counted as a farm murder:

Acts of violence against person/s on farms and small holdings refer to acts aimed at person/s residing on, working on or visiting farms and small holdings, whether with the intent to murder, rape, rob or inflict bodily harm. In addition, all acts of violence against the infrastructure and property in the rural community aimed at disrupting legal farming activities as a commercial concern, whether the motive/s are related to ideology, land disputes, land issues, revenge, grievances, racist concerns or intimidation are included.
http://www.politicsweb.co.za/documents/492-farm-attacks-and-58-farm-murders-in-201314--sa
 

ponder

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Nice houses where? Some areas of townships are pretty much like suburbs these days.
In townships, many houses would not be out of place in a decent neighborhood, but a few meters away you have the tin&plastic shacks. So they are affected by the crime & riots like the rest when they have the financial means to stay in much better areas.
 

f2wohf

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Apr 15, 2014
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Melrose for example falls under Bramley. I’ll show you on the map.

[MENTION=71274]Pitbull[/MENTION]

Here it is:

Capture.jpg

Bramley police precinct includes Sandhurst, Hyde Park, Inanda, part of Illovo, Bramley, Kew, part of Wynberg and part of Strathavon.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
57,352
That's not what I said. Nice strawman attempt.

Who the hell would live in a dangerous area if they had the means to leave?
No strawman, I made a clear distinction by saying impoverished no, dangerous yes to which you said: "The live in dangerous areas because they can’t afford to move to safer areas"
 

Knyro

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In townships, many houses would not be out of place in a decent neighborhood, but a few meters away you have the tin&plastic shacks. So they are affected by the crime & riots like the rest when they have the financial means to stay in much better areas.
Those places are not necessarily dangerous at all. These days a McDonalds wouldn't be out of place there either.

No strawman, I made a clear distinction by saying impoverished no, dangerous yes to which you said: "The live in dangerous areas because they can’t afford to move to safer areas"
No you said:

So all impoverished areas are now dangerous? :erm:
I didn't say that at all. Why would you choose to live in a dangerous area if you could leave, answer me that.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Impoverished no[-]w[/-], dangerous yes.
The live in dangerous areas because they can’t afford to move to safer areas.
So all impoverished areas are now dangerous? :erm:
You lying sack of shyte.

There are the posts in order you even quoted my post. I made a clear distinction between poor areas doesn't by default mean it's dangerous. You then posted that they live in dangerous areas because they can't afford safer areas. It's bullshyte and then claim I'm playing strawman arguments which it's not.
 

Knyro

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You lying sack of shyte.

There are the posts in order you even quoted my post. I made a clear distinction between poor areas doesn't by default mean it's dangerous. You then posted that they live in dangerous areas because they can't afford safer areas. It's bullshyte and then claim I'm playing strawman arguments which it's not.
FFS your logic skills suck.

We both agree that people don't live in impoverished areas by choice. Check.

Then you said people live in dangerous areas by choice. I said this is false, as if they could afford to, they would leave. Hence they don't live there by choice either.

This is not the same as saying that impoverished areas are dangerous.
 
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
3,799
Deduction

Wondering how my Xhosa friend understands Zulu Shona and Swahili without ever going to school to learn it...
She must be bull****ting since it’s impossible for a Xhosa to understand Zulu.
I see you need some help from -- "Inspector Clouseau" to explain deduction
You base you explanation on the experiences of ONE person .... ???

Many / Most black South Africans can speak and understand many indigenous African languages
It comes about in general day to day interaction where you have people from different areas working or living n close proximity.
For instance someone from the Transkei goes to work in Johannesburg -- where you have people from all over Africa
By a natural process of inter-action different languages will be heard and learned
Example -- there are MANY Zimbabweans in Johannesburg speaking their normal home language SHONA
Because of the Matabele in the South ( Matabeleland ) many Shona understand Ndebele ( close to Zulu and Xhosa )
There is NO need to go to "school" for this to occur -- it is a function of the natural language "melting-pot"
HOWEVER
It does NOT in any way imply that these languages are in any way -- THE SAME !
 

f2wohf

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Where did I say they’re the same?

I said that it’s easy to understand. The same way than Portuguese or Romanian are easy to understand for me, southern Bantu languages are rather easy to understand for somebody who speaks it.

Let’s leave it there, Knyro must be wrong and my friend must be a genius who learns new languages out of nowhere in a week.
 
Joined
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Heterogeneous

I still wonder how we did not perish impaled with spears with my Xhosa friend in Durban when she was speaking Zulu (that she’s not supposed to understand).
Because -- I would imagine
You were in "polite-society" in an URBAN area with younger educated people where the population was more heterogeneous ( and affluent)
 
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ForceFate

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Because -- I would imagine
You were in "polite-society" in an URBAN area with younger educated people where the population was more heterogeneous ( and affluent)
Not the case anymore. My friend's mom-in-law was Xhosa married to a rural Zulu family. Much of the feuds in the 80s were between ANC and IFP I believe
 

Knyro

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Because -- I would imagine
You were in "polite-society" in an URBAN area with younger educated people where the population was more heterogeneous ( and affluent)
I would imagine black people are not the savages you think they are and they were never in any danger at all.
 

Knyro

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Still pretending to be an expert on Zulu/ Xhosa relations?
I was in rural Limpopo once and I swear those Vendas had it in for me.

Oh wait no they didn't. They welcomed me with open arms because one of them was getting married to my cousin.

These MyBBers man smh.
 
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