a muslim's view on killing non muslims

saturnz

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the point starts at 23:15 if the link doesn't work properly

[video=youtube_share;2_XYn96LSUw]https://youtu.be/2_XYn96LSUw?t=23m15s[/video]
 

copacetic

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Well, this is really the problem with religion - This gentleman quite reasonably says "true believers do not kill those who do not believe" while other believers may say "kill the infidel". Why is one any more correct than the other? The bottom line is that ANY sort of dogmatic and interpretable ideology is dangerous: if you need it to be good, what is stopping you from being good without that ideology, and if a given ideology causes a person to commit a universally accepted moral wrong, then would we not be better off discarding it altogether?
 

upup

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That guy with his desert outfit away from the desert.
 

saturnz

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Well, this is really the problem with religion - This gentleman quite reasonably says "true believers do not kill those who do not believe" while other believers may say "kill the infidel". Why is one any more correct than the other? The bottom line is that ANY sort of dogmatic and interpretable ideology is dangerous: if you need it to be good, what is stopping you from being good without that ideology, and if a given ideology causes a person to commit a universally accepted moral wrong, then would we not be better off discarding it altogether?
so when people say "well what are muslims doing about terrorism" and muslims do something, people always try to find fault, and you are an excellent example of that

your prejudices blind you

maybe watch the entire video, he speaks of people such as yourself
 

copacetic

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so when people say "well what are muslims doing about terrorism" and muslims do something, people always try to find fault, and you are an excellent example of that
Well, feel free to direct this at those who say that. I personally have no issue whatsoever with Muslims (or any other religious person) and I don't believe I've ever made such a statement (since it takes a special type of idiot to see things in such a black and white fashion). I do, however, think that religion is a bit silly in general, but this does not in any manner preclude me from understanding it can have tremendous importance to some people.

your prejudices blind you
You are free to claim such. Doesn't make it true though. Much like religion itself.

maybe watch the entire video, he speaks of people such as yourself
I watched the bit you indicated for the thread. No offense but jesus christ do I have better things to do than watch religious sermons (of any stripe)...
 

saturnz

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Well, feel free to direct this at those who say that. I personally have no issue whatsoever with Muslims (or any other religious person) and I don't believe I've ever made such a statement (since it takes a special type of idiot to see things in such a black and white fashion). I do, however, think that religion is a bit silly in general, but this does not in any manner preclude me from understanding it can have tremendous importance to some people.



You are free to claim such. Doesn't make it true though. Much like religion itself.



I watched the bit you indicated for the thread. No offense but jesus christ do I have better things to do than watch religious sermons (of any stripe)...
the point of the post was to clarify Islam's view on murder, not to question the validity of Islam, go do that in your own thread
 

copacetic

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the point of the post was to clarify Islam's view on murder, not to question the validity of Islam, go do that in your own thread
You went of on a tangent first; I was simply responding to that.

And as I said in response to the topic at hand:

Well, this is really the problem with religion - This gentleman quite reasonably says "true believers do not kill those who do not believe" while other believers may say "kill the infidel". Why is one any more correct than the other? The bottom line is that ANY sort of dogmatic and interpretable ideology is dangerous: if you need it to be good, what is stopping you from being good without that ideology, and if a given ideology causes a person to commit a universally accepted moral wrong, then would we not be better off discarding it altogether?
You simply do not have a monopoly on what Islam is, and your belief that you do is precisely the same mechanism driving those that kill in its name.
 

saturnz

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You went of on a tangent first; I was simply responding to that.
I never went on a tangent, all what I did was post a video of Islams view on murder, you went off on infidels and doing good etc, totally irrelevant to the thread
 

Splinter

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the point of the post was to clarify Islam's view on murder, not to question the validity of Islam, go do that in your own thread
So this individual is the authority on Islam? I'm just checking so that there is no squirming later on.
 

copacetic

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I never went on a tangent, all what I did was post a video of Islams view on murder, you went off on infidels and doing good etc, totally irrelevant to the thread
Any response I have made in this thread has been specifically related to the video and subsequent statements made by yourself.

I'm starting to think though, that you are perhaps not in this for the purpose of meaningful dialogue on the topic.
 

wayfarer

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Well, this is really the problem with religion - This gentleman quite reasonably says "true believers do not kill those who do not believe" while other believers may say "kill the infidel". Why is one any more correct than the other? The bottom line is that ANY sort of dogmatic and interpretable ideology is dangerous: if you need it to be good, what is stopping you from being good without that ideology, and if a given ideology causes a person to commit a universally accepted moral wrong, then would we not be better off discarding it altogether?
Religions don't make one good, but they provide avenues and systems to refine one's character and express one's inherent beneficence. Ultimately, religion (for Abrahamic adherents) is about service to humanity, and attaining God through surrendering to Him in Love.

While notions of Heaven and Hell are real, the carrot-and-stick system serves as a basic motivating force for those who are having a tough time struggling against the baser aspect of themselves. The serious Believer needs neither the carrot nor the stick, but reforms character and nurtures spiritual disposition by tapping into innate "goodness", via tried and tested practices taught by religion.

Religion does not make people good or bad, but it is a powerful force for people seeking goodness and transcendence above the mundane. Likewise, religion is a force for doing harm, for those who seek self-aggrandisement at the expense of others. In this way, religions have always had a pathogenic element, in the sense that they are co-opted as a means of injecting a "justified" zealousness for political pursuits, self-enrichment and for creating mischief and injustice in the world. And then there are those well-meaning ones who are beguiled by such conspirators.

George Bernard Shaw famously said that the problem with religion is that it only benefits religious people. This means that those irreligious people who dress in the cloak of religion, but are nothing but a menace to peace and sociopolitical prosperity, will NOT benefit by religion, but instead, be a force for its perversion.
 

Jings

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Ancients must have had quite a fair share of musicals in days of old.

The imam would not be talking about not harming infidels if he was standing at a podium in ME.
 
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