A question to the non christians

[Safferbeauty]

Do you guys and girls have anything against Christian people on here like me who dont force their views on anyone. I tend to keep quiet and stay out of debates unless I feel it is really necessary to say something. I dont force my views on non christians and dont tell them they going to hell.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Safferbeauty : No, I personally have nothing against anyone, or their views. Its the people who insist on trying to twist what is an interesting debate to try and suit their views or to try and "convert" other people to their views.

I know this will sound stupid but many of my best friends are devoutly Christian, and we have some very interesting discussions on the topic of religion because they are willing to listen to my views and I am willing to listen to theirs. We very rarely agree on it.. but still its interesting..

 

[Neo]

Do you guys and girls have anything against Christian people on here like me who dont force their views on anyone. I tend to keep quiet and stay out of debates unless I feel it is really necessary to say something. I dont force my views on non christians and dont tell them they going to hell.

Remember how the last thread you started, on the topic, turned out?

Probably not a good idea to even start these threads, as there are forumites around who cannot engage in level-headed discussions.

 

[Safferbeauty]

I have a lot of non christian friends who I talk openly to about christianity if they ask my opinion. I cant force someone to agree with my opinion. No point. A lot of christians I have noticed are very quick to point fingers when someone is doing something bad, but they cant do it to themselves

 

[PostmanPot]

Do you guys and girls have anything against Christian people on here like me who dont force their views on anyone. I tend to keep quiet and stay out of debates unless I feel it is really necessary to say something.

good. nothing against you Saffer!

I dont force my views on non christians and dont tell them they going to hell.

that annoys be though :/

i hope you understand why!

 

[Safferbeauty]

My last thread went slightly off topic. Hopefully this one wont. That is another reason why i stopped posting there

 

[ToxicBunny]

It is at the end of the day all about tolerance.

We have different belief structures, but we can co-exist very very well because those belief structures apply only to ourselves. Its when people feel that they need to apply to everyone around them that issues arise.

I will admit that I do have a large problem with the way some churchs run their finances, but that is not part of this discussion.

 

[Safferbeauty]

Why does it annoy you?

 

[ToxicBunny]

Actually I'm intrigued by that as well, why does it annoy you?

 

[Safferbeauty]

I have a big problem with it too. Can i hi jack my own thread?

 

[ToxicBunny]

Yes u may. It is your domain.. Temporarily..

 

[Highflyer_GP]

Why does it annoy you?

The way that you said it implies that you think he's going to hell - and whether or not you tell him is irrelevant.

To answer the question, I have nothing against anybody's belief - Christian or otherwise. I have a problem with them forcing it on others and I have a very very big problem with preaching because it irritates the crap out of me.

Anyway it's only a matter of time before that ignorant dodo shows up on this thread so I don't think I'll be adding anything further.

 

[PostmanPot]

Saffer, because you are implying that hell exists

 

[DragonLogos]

No hell below us

 

[PeterCH]

The way that you said it implies that you think he's going to hell - and whether or not you tell him is irrelevant.

To answer the question, I have nothing against anybody's belief - Christian or otherwise. I have a problem with them forcing it on others and I have a very very big problem with preaching because it irritates the crap out of me.

Anyway it's only a matter of time before that ignorant dodo shows up on this thread so I don't think I'll be adding anything further.

Christian belief is that if you don't believe in Christ you will go to hell. Now there are loopholes and some churches, I can only speak about my own church (Roman Catholic - I don't know much details on this topic concerning other Christian Churches), actually leave it entirely to God ultimately, along the lines of even a non-Christian person can find Christ in his final hour, or
if a person who is non-Christian seeks a greater holy good - Christ may find him. There are also explanations for people who died before they could know Christ or died before He came or died in areas where missionaries never went to and aso on. I'm not a theologian so don't ask me the details .
Ultimately Catholics (speak for my church here) believe that God has infinite mercy, love and wisdom. We believe that ultimately He will not allow those people who through no fault of their own would not accept Christ, to be damned forever. We can also not judge what this failure of acceptance is either, whether it is wilful or influenced by peers, family, culture etc to the point that it becomes ingrained.

However even if Christian belief follows the lines of No Christ = No Salvation, why should it bother people who don't consider Christianity seriously or laugh it off as a fable? Say for example, I don't believe an ounce of what Jehova's Witnesses preach, and they preach that everyone but them will burn in hell,
but I allow them that point of view. I don't become depressed or angry because Watchtower magazine says I will burn in hell. I live my own life according to my own beliefs (granted these are influenced heavily by the Church, my parents, friends, culture, social laws of the country) but I don't become upset by those who don't believe in God and I don't become upset by those Christians who incorrectly believe Catholics worship idols (an example). I do however
wish that everyone would consciously believe in Christ. Wishing something and hating those who don't follow this wish are two different things entirely. So it makes me wonder why some atheists MUST belittle our beliefs or argue about them at every opportunity. Accept our beliefs and we will accept yours. As said we may accept but we don't agree with them, neither do
you have to agree with ours although we really hope you would.



Can Non-Christians be Saved?
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403sbs.asp
Do read the article above. It's most interesting.

 

[PeterCH]

The way that you said it implies that you think he's going to hell - and whether or not you tell him is irrelevant.

To answer the question, I have nothing against anybody's belief - Christian or otherwise. I have a problem with them forcing it on others and I have a very very big problem with preaching because it irritates the crap out of me.

Anyway it's only a matter of time before that ignorant dodo shows up on this thread so I don't think I'll be adding anything further.

No-one is forcing you to become Christian. However we in the Christian Church would LIKE YOU to become Christian because Christ died for YOU.
That's all. You don't have to believe. You can even laugh. I mean the Bible does sound like a fairy tale. If you don't believe than don't let it bother you that our dogma says that a lack of belief in Christ equals damnation. I'm sorry but that's the way it is, saying anything else would be lying to you, heck would you want Christian people to patronise you?
However if you read the link I provided earlier you will see
that we - or at least our Founding Fathers, did not wish any ill will on anyone,
we hope and want everyone to be saved. It's not a wilful malicious ill will we bestow on you, we are saddened if people don't believe in Christ, but we bid them no ill will and we don't rub our hands wishing that they end up in hell.
You're free to choose. Christians hope that even non-believers and even murderers, rapists etc, be saved. I know I do. (Disclaimer: putting non-believers and murderers in the same sentence definitely does not mean I equate the two, all I am saying is that Christian people do
wish for everyone to be saved.)

If it means anything I also get irritated by people from other Christian Churches trying to convert me. I won't argue Church vs Church here but it does make me a little upset at times.
Anyhow no-one is trying to preach to you (in my post at least). I'm just clarifying the whole,
thing of 'going to hell'.

 

[LoneGunman]

nice to read a normal discussion of religion ie: no attempts to position anyone as being 'better' or 'worse' than others, by virtue of their belief systems (or absence of them.)

 

[kilo39]

Christian belief is that if you don't believe in Christ you will go to hell. Now there are loopholes and some churches, I can only speak about my own church (Roman Catholic - I don't know much details on this topic concerning other Christian Churches), actually leave it entirely to God ultimately, along the lines of even a non-Christian person can find Christ in his final hour, or
if a person who is non-Christian seeks a greater holy good - Christ may find him. There are also explanations for people who died before they could know Christ or died before He came or died in areas where missionaries never went to and aso on. I'm not a theologian so don't ask me the details

The difference is catholics are promised a seat at the feet of Christ (though all can find christ in an instant, dead or alive.) It all depends how close you want to sit.

How can an all benevolent christ doom all to hell? How can a christ "who died for the sins of mankind" then go ahead and consign all to hell. It is a contradiction. And no the RC church does not consign anybody to hell. Purgatory maybe depending on your standing with the mortal sins but hell no. Except in the most extreme cases. (Consider: if there is any hell you are in it now: you have already been consigned and are presently serving your sentence. )

Consider the other religions of the world: are they consigned to hell as well?

"actually leave it entirely to God ultimately" (but I thought) in terms of the RC's god, christ... and the holy spirit were one and the same? Therefore each know the other intimately: Christ brought love and benevolence; traits notably lacking in the teachings of God (and the old testament.) Christ teaches that he will turn none away; they simply need ask. The RC's recognise the great teachers of the world: buddha, Mohamed, Lao Tzu. They are less keen on the other "peoples that call themselves christian," ie, the splinter churches (which to a large extent were political.)

Strange that you profess your catholicism while making a statement like, " I don't become upset by those Christians who incorrectly believe Catholics worship idols." What idol? In fact the catholic church specifically forbids idols (which tends to put the animist 'religions' out the picture.)

That's all. You don't have to believe. You can even laugh. I mean the Bible does sound like a fairy tale. If you don't believe than don't let it bother you that our dogma says that a lack of belief in Christ equals damnation. I'm sorry but that's the way it is, saying anything else would be lying to you, heck would you want Christian people to patronise you?

How can a GOD/Christ suffer "dogma?" How can a GOD/Christ suffer any of the iniquities, failings/capriciousness of 'people'.

However if you read the link I provided earlier you will see
that we - or at least our Founding Fathers, did not wish any ill will on anyone,
we hope and want everyone to be saved. It's not a wilful malicious ill will we bestow on you, we are saddened if people don't believe in Christ, but we bid them no ill will and we don't rub our hands wishing that they end up in hell.

You sound quite gleeful to me. (Founding Fathers?)

If it means anything I also get irritated by people from other Christian Churches trying to convert me. I won't argue Church vs Church here but it does make me a little upset at times.
Anyhow no-one is trying to preach to you (in my post at least). I'm just clarifying the whole,
thing of 'going to hell'.

You sound like a very confused catholic. (With the messages coming out of the vatican I'm not surprised.)

... in terms of religion right now I'm tending towards the long view. What are those lines in Armageddon about "at the end the dead will rise up and all will acknowledge the glory of God?" ... sort of ties in with the concept of the singularity... at the end of the universe time will go exponential and all will be possible in a instant... the by-product of which will be "everything" including the resurrected past and all who have ever passed away. At that point "we" will become God (and it will all recycle again: in the alternate universe we have created.)

Tipler identifies this asymptotic state of infinite information capacity with God. The implication of this theory for present-day humans is that this ultimate cosmic computer will essentially be able to resurrect ("simulate" might be a more modest verb) everyone who has ever lived, by recreating all possible quantum brain states within the master simulation. This will be manifested as a simulated reality, except without the necessity for physical bodies. From the perspective of the simulated "inhabitant," the Omega Point represents an infinite-duration afterlife, which could take any imaginable form due to its virtual nature.
Omega point

Ultimate fate of the universe (models)

Singularity theory

 

[geekchick]

As a non- christian- I read all these religious threads in anyway- some of the debates and view points are informative and interesting- Personally- I realy could not care what any-one else thinks about my belief structure. It works for me and I do not have the need to defend or explain it- neither do I require any one else to defend or explain theirs to me. To each his own.

 

[lilDeath]

Saffer, because you are implying that hell exists

No hell below us

Isn't the HELL of Telkom enough