A question to the non christians

[kilo39]

I'm doing it to once again prove that no definitive answer can come of it, my stance on the subject hasn't changed.

If by some (unlikely) miracle something does change, my stance still wouldn't change however I will begin to start asking even more questions

You see. You are beaten before you even try. Use a good book not confined to the notions of superiority but rather our connections with the world, ie, the I Ching.

 

[Highflyer_GP]

You see. You are beaten before you even try. Use a good book not confined to the notions of superiority but rather our connections with the world, ie, the I Ching.

Well the reason it wouldn't change immediately is because you cannot take a firm decision on a random occurrence. A firm stance can only be taken if you can repeatedly replicate the result at will, and at the moment I'm thinking that's highly unlikely.

I'll give a few books a try so as to not be biased towards any particular belief system. Where about can one get a copy of I Ching?

 

[Nod]

Where about can one get a copy of I Ching?

Read about I Ching here. Sacred texts also have a LOT of other information.

 

[kilo39]

Well the reason it wouldn't change immediately is because you cannot take a firm decision on a random occurrence. A firm stance can only be taken if you can repeatedly replicate the result at will, and at the moment I'm thinking that's highly unlikely.

The I Ching is a path (not a religion.) (Though it encompassses all aspects of the world and is therefore a religion.) We cannot replicate things at will: we can only have a consciousness that moves towards a better world (for you and everybody else.) The concepts given in the I Ching seek to give a greater understanding of our place within the world and it's place within the greater universe.

I'll give a few books a try so as to not be biased towards any particular belief system. Where about can one get a copy of I Ching?

The Richard Wilhelm is the accepted authority and the closest you will get to the formal religion of the I Ching (the Tao.) It is available in all bookshops. There are also more 'modern' interpretations of the I Ching which seek to give an understanding of (essentially) chinese concepts in english.

The Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu gives the closest perceptions of the underlying base of the I Ching.

I Ching

Taosim

 

[Safferbeauty]

Like I mentioned on the post - I was not having a go!!



good to know you have friends - and I understand now the reason for the posts as your friends are not around.



Great - I moved here from overseas a few years ago, loving it here - granted there are issues but I certainly don't hate it, in fact I like it here a lot.

Some of the issues can and will be sorted out, some, well probably wont, shame to see them leave.



Thought from your location (Next to the number of posts) you were in Cape town?

Anyway - apologies if I came across harsh, didnt mean to at all.

/doc

Its cool I didnt mean to sound hard, having a bad day

 

[kilo39]

Having written all of the above I would like to make some clarifications and qualifications.

First. The esoterics of Taosim can be ignored. There is only one book that should concern you and that is the I Ching, preferably the Wilhelm translation.

The I Ching states that 'you' do not choose the path: it chooses you. The Sage chooses his disciples very carefully and not everybody is chosen. In the normal scheme of things people have never heard of the I Ching, and in fact any posting (such as my own) is a failure (in the sense it is a display of ego and greater knowledge) fundamentals that the I Ching seeks to revoke/avoid.

Two. The I Ching is precipitated on the notion of "A Guide" and even an entity that lives within the book. The earlier post by Myrrdin of a random page method concerning the bible is the true basis of the I Ching (hence I comment.) Though all my earlier posts regarding cosmology stem from a study of the I Ching.

Three. I have no problems with the teachings of Christ (a true great leader.) But I do have a problem with random pages "in the bible" which has been shown over and over again on this forum to not give very good advice (certainly in terms of the old testament.)

If I had to recommend any book beyond the Wilhelm it would be Carol Anthony's I Ching (mentioned on the wikipedia I Ching page.) The Legge I am less keen on (It is a closer translation of the Wilhelm and leaves lots to be desired.) To a beginner the Wilhelm is very dense but it gives you a true feel for the classic text and the basis thereof.

Four. The I Ching is a religion of nihilism and is a very hard path. Ultimately ones comes to understand that one has been given a vast body of knowledge but only by adherence can one come upon that knowledge.

Five. The I Ching is not for everybody (and is opaque to most.) However if you are willing to walk the path then the Sage is always there to guide you. Which is exactly the first question asked: how do I make my way in this complex world (and who can I turn to to guide me.)

 

[Roman4604]

Which is exactly the first question asked: how do I make my way in this complex world (and who can I turn to to guide me.)

Garmin

 

[PostmanPot]

Garmin

 

[Claymore]

I want you to think of a particular hard situation you have in your life currently, not necessarily a problem but something which is troubling you. This has to be something personal, dont pick world peace or some vain unattainable benevolance. This must be something very personal and private. Then think about it, in detail, whenever you feel you have thought it through thoroughly and understand all the aspects of the problem I want you to go into a subservient position whatever that might be for you and I want you to pray. Don't follow any dogma you have learnt in church, speak to Him from your heart and ask Him for His help in this matter. When you are done I want you to take your bible and randomly open it to a place, any place and read the chapter it opens at. Apply that chapter to the question you have.

A question: if you repeat this multiple times, do you get the same page every time? Does it matter what Bible? Does it work if you just open the Bible without praying first?

As a kid, I tried this sort of thing many times. It never made any difference whatsoever.

 

[nthdimension]

you need to believe in the principles and the theories behind this science.

You definitely do not. An experiment will work whether or not you believe.

they are theories albeit with alot more stone cold facts then lets say the theory of heaven and hell which becomes more a belief then a theory for some.

Heaven and hell are at best conjecture. I doubt they'd even qualify as an hypothesis.

 

[LoneGunman]

re the I Ching - to get a very interesting and seriously non-esoteric view of it, read the classic introduction to an edition of the I Ching, written by a major thinker - Carl Jung. (who's he? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung )
Its too long to post here, but here's the link - and its fascinating to read the founder of analytical psychology, talking about the I Ching and the weirdness of writing a foreword for it. It provides a lot of good analysis, thought and background to the concept of the I Ching, from a scientifically thoughtful and analytical perspective.
http://www.iging.com/intro/foreword.htm

 

[arf9999]

how did he teach you to have an open mind? what did he teach you?

Isn't this a bit OT, or do I just have a dirty mind?

 

[nthdimension]

Do it, dont do it. Are you going to argue with a scientist about the test he prescribes for testing the existence of the atom.

If my physics lecturer had instructed us to think heavy thoughts and bay at the moon before conducting a gravity experiment I would have questioned his sanity.

Afterall baying at the moon is only necessary in software development.

 

[ToxicBunny]

and even then baying at the moon in software dev usually fails miserably, sacrificing young children at the altar is more effective...

 

[Debbie]

awesome links lonegunman

 

[Nanfeishen]

The esoterics of Taosim can be ignored.

I am sorry to disagree on this one,but to ignore the teachings , or works of Lao Tzu, is to lose a fundamental part of the I Ching.
Lau Tzu wrote two works , the Tao Teh Ching , and the Hua Hu Ching, they both go hand in glove with the I Ching.
To understand either you have to understand both, for to understand the way, is to understand there is no way.
The I Ching shows us that change is constant, it explains the interaction of Yin and Yang, the theoretical science of change, Lao Tzu's works show us how to apply the ideas and concepts of those theories, so as to return to "Wu Chi", which gives birth to Yin and Yang, in other words to return to a point of absolute balance and harmony, no ego, no emotional states, no imbalance, centered, calm and and free of thought , internal silence amidst the noise of the world around us.

 

[PostmanPot]

Isn't this a bit OT, or do I just have a dirty mind?

just you with a dirty mind

 

[nocilah]

You definitely do not. An experiment will work whether or not you believe.

show me an experiment that proves string theory or quantum theory?

We are not talking about micky mouse science here

Heaven and hell are at best conjecture. I doubt they'd even qualify as a hypothesis.

A hypothesis (= assumption in ancient Greek) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon.

hypothetically speaking i have just proved you wrong.

 

[nocilah]

If my physics lecturer had instructed us to think heavy thoughts and bay at the moon before conducting a gravity experiment I would have questioned his sanity.

Thats the problem right there. You limit yourself to your own constraints and beliefs.

You have already set a foundation for your life and set up boundaries for your mind. I do not expect any remarkable theory within science, physics or life coming from you.

If life is about experiments and nurturing results then when does the creativity of discovering science come in?

After all the theory of relativity had no experiments or math to begin with.

 

[w1z4rd]

show me an experiment that proves quantum theory?

http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=40876



A hypothesis (= assumption in ancient Greek) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon.

hypothetically speaking i have just proved you wrong.

Quantum mechanics is not a hypothesis and is theory. Practical theory.