A real solution to both personal and national power generation

[Weebz]

Hi fellow South Africans,

I am a long time lerker on mybb and would like to share some exciting news about a new power generation technology which has just reached market last week.

Firstly some quick background, I have been following promising new energy generation technologies for the past 10 years. Unfortunately the vast majority of seriously promising technologies simply get bought by oil companies so that their patents can be shelved long before they make it to market. Fortunately, in recent years the massive amount of scientifically progress being made has finally made it impossible to stop all viable alternatives to fossil fuels from becoming mass produced products.

The KPP (Kinetic Power Plant) has been developed by Rosch Innovations AG, headquartered in Switzerland, Germany, and Serbia. They even have a South African branch! This device produces renewable power at ~$0.03/kW-h production price (calculated based on a 5 MW system). They already have large industrial contracts with various governments and industries (including the South African diamond industry), but only last week did they start selling small scale systems. The smallest system they'll sell is 200 kW but as far as I understand, orders under 5 MW are not guaranteed to be accepted at this time.

Their patented KPP utilizes a combination of buoyancy and gravity in a proprietary system that includes their exclusive generator, air compressor, and circuit controller. Their proof of concept prototype has been third party tested and certified to work by a TUV performance entity.

Power Plant purchases are 100% guaranteed and backed by a well-known agency with hundreds of billions of Euros in assets, so there is no risk in purchasing. If the system doesn't perform to contract specifications, you get a refund per the contract terms.

Due to the rare earth magnets they are using in their generator, there is a supply chain limit to how many systems they can manufacture per year -- 2.8 gW capacity total. They are approaching that limit for 2015. By the end of 2016, they expect that to change, enabling them to manufacture much more than that.

The only reason I can think of that Eskom would not want to invest in this technology is because it would make generation so inexpensive that they would have issues with a profit margin. Perhaps the City of Cape Town could however see the benefit of solving the current economic nightmare and jump on this opportunity.

Links to more information:
http://rosch-innovations.de/
5 MW+ Systems for Sale
KPP Brochure (pdf)
Proof of principle, 250 W prototype "tested to measure power performance" (pdf)

 

[HavocXphere]

Advertising isn't allowed unless you're registered as a dealer on mybb.

systems as small as 5 MW for homes.

5MW for home use? In case I feel the need to start a DIY mini Aluminium smelter operation in my backyard?

 

[Weebz]

Advertising isn't allowed unless you're registered as a dealer on mybb.

I have no affiliation with this company or product. I simply decided it was well worth the time to share my findings with the mybb community. I also think even more importantly, someone in charge electricity in the government should be made aware of this technology. If I am not allowed to share this information, a mod can by all means remove this thread.

5MW for home use? In case I feel the need to start a DIY mini Aluminium smelter operation in my backyard?

From what I have read, it seems the smallest system they'll sell is 200 kW but orders under 5 MW are not guaranteed to be accepted. I'll add that to my post for clarification.

 

[supersunbird]

So what "fuels" it?

 

[Weebz]

I guess you could say physics and the laws of byoyancy "fuel" it. It is a closed loop system so there are zero emissions.

It is "a buoyancy device involving floats that fill with air at the bottom of a water tank to cause them to rise, turning a generator in the process".

Try pushing a 5-gallon bucket of air under water. Ships and tankers float on the principle of buoyancy. So why couldn't a power plant be made to run on it? It seems to me that Rosch's KPP technology does that.

Source: Buoyancy is Underrated

 

[Johnatan56]

I guess you could say physics and the laws of byoyancy "fuel" it. It is a closed loop system so there are zero emissions.

It is "a buoyancy device involving floats that fill with air at the bottom of a water tank to cause them to rise, turning a generator in the process".



Source: Buoyancy is Underrated

I call bull.

 

[JohnHay]

I guess you could say physics and the laws of byoyancy "fuel" it. It is a closed loop system so there are zero emissions.

It is "a buoyancy device involving floats that fill with air at the bottom of a water tank to cause them to rise, turning a generator in the process".

So what takes the "floats" down again for their next round? Or do we have perpetual motion at last?

 

[supersunbird]

So what takes the "floats" down again for their next round? Or do we have perpetual motion at last?

The air is let out, gravity does the rest... The cost of the system would be the electricity required to pump air down and into the floats.

 

[JohnHay]

The air is let out, gravity does the rest... The cost of the system would be the electricity required to pump air down and into the floats.

But you need to displace that water to get the air in, so a serious amount of energy. Kind of like the current Eskom pump schemes?

 

[supersunbird]

But you need to displace that water to get the water in, so a serious amount of energy. Kind of like the current Eskom pump schemes?

You mean to get the air in? Well, what would happen if you release air below a bucket in a swimming pool? It goes up and into the bucket, the water displaced naturally by the air, the water level in the pool rises.

 

[itareanlnotani]

A read of some of the links below, may enlighten the "believers in this snake oil"

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=rosch+kpp+scam&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

A good comment from one of the pages:

1. There is not the slightest evidence (beyond Rosch's words) that the alleged 100 MW "Thrust Kinetic Generators presently in operation" actually do exist. No photos, no videos, no independent witnesses ... nothing.

2. No Rosch buoyancy "power plant" has -- as far as publicly known -- ever been thoroughly examined by a credible truly independent (!) expert. There is, for example, a questionable link between the Italian shop who created the "TÜV" report and one of Rosch's executives. BTW: TÜV = "Technischer Überwachungsverein" is a large German based organization with countless offices in Germany. Why did Rosch employ an *Italian* shop to create this report??

3. No credible witness has ever seen the 2 m demonstration plant in operation for much longer than an hour. The control box contains a large battery, which is allegedly only used for starting and buffering purposes. However, an energy density calculation shows that this battery could easily deliver the about 300 W output power of this plant for several hours.

4. All publicly known measurements of the plant in Belgrade measured the output power after a large wall-mounted control box. There is no publicly known report of a measurement between the generator and this control box.

 

[supersunbird]

I don't believe in it, I just say it can make sense in theory, one would need to obviously test such a system, find its limitations and if it doesn't work or is not feasible, so be it.

 

[Arthur]

The idea of bouyancy engines and generators has been around for ages and is discussed on hundreds of websites. Just search "bouyancy generator".

Here's HidroPlus Tecnology, for example:
From their website:
Does Hidro+™ have patents? Yes. HidroPlus is protected under is protected under World Patent Numbers: AU2007/906961, PCTAU2008/001888, AUS-PATENT2008/338258. The International Preliminary Examining Authority Reports, dated 23/6/2009, have issued statements under Article 35(2) for the total Patents, due all claims are considered Novel, Inventive and complete for Industrial Applicability. The World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) on the 25th June 2009 published the International Hidro+™ Patents Publication number WO/2009/076727 and others patent-pending. A number of national phase patents have been granted including Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, USA, Europe.

Unfortunately the vast majority of seriously promising technologies simply get bought by oil companies so that their patents can be shelved long before they make it to market.

Huh? Do you really think that, in the real world outside of loopy websites, people who invent "promising technologies" sell out to the oil companies? And then go silent when their "promising" inventions are shelved? Seriously? Thas only happens in the cuckoo parts of the internet and in fevered imaginations.

Very disappointing is the childish non-scientific language on the Rosch website. Example:

"Why our power plant works - and whether the principle of conservation of energy is violated - is not yet a fully clarified question and must be answered by the physics."

To even suggest that the principle of conservation of energy might be an open question "to be answered by the physics" is a sure sign that wacky loons did the website and possibly run the company. Worrying.

 

[Necropolis]

So what "fuels" it?

Magic, magic and good intentions.

This all sounds like some new-agey hippy nonsense.

 

[JohnHay]

You mean to get the air in? Well, what would happen if you release air below a bucket in a swimming pool? It goes up and into the bucket, the water displaced naturally by the air, the water level in the pool rises.

If I make a cut in the bottom of my plastic pool, the water leaks out. The air does not go in. Even if I put a bucket upside down over the cut. At most I can stop the water leaking out if I seal the edge where the bucket touch the pool. Water is heavier than air, so to displace the water, you will need energy to pump the air in and displace the water. We (humans) cannot make energy, we can change into different forms. Even with that we are normally not very good and have lots of losses into unwanted enery forms like heat.

 

[Arthur]

In very broad outlines there's nothing wrong with the theory. Basically, air is injected (requires energy) into the base of a column of water. The air is captured in buckets attached to a chain/belt. The bouyancy of the air-filled buckets drives the chain/belt which in turn drives a flywheel which drives a genny. It's not perpetual motion in any way, and can only work in gravity.

Energy is required to drive the system, mainly to inject air into the column.

Mechanical inefficiencies mean the real challenge is to get out more electrical energy than needed to drive the base airpump and control systems. This is not perpetual motion because the main external energy source is gravity (which is like everything else subject to S), just as orbiting bodies rely on gravity (imperfect analogy of course, just making the point that there's no magic).

 

[Sonic2k]

Oh dear... the snake oil salesmen are in full force to cash in on our crisis

 

[mmacleod]

I have a rock that reduces your power consumption by up to 50%, does anybody want to buy it?

 

[Arthur]

I have a rock that reduces your power consumption by up to 50%, does anybody want to buy it?

Does it move?

 

[Sonic2k]

Hear hear, I have a plastic ring you put it around your appliance cables and it reduces up to 40% GUARANTEED!
Only R1500 for today... and if you buy now I will give you the big one, to put around your geyser wires, for free... A R3000 value.