AARTO Act just wants to suck money from South African motorists – JPSA

ArtyLoop

Executive Member
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Dec 18, 2017
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Everything done in SA is to fleece the public of their last dime.

That's the problem, the culture... the culture of rip-off and fleecing.
However, they tried this privatization thing in the UK, that didn't end up working too well either.

The problem is people's attitudes... the taxi industry has a lot of responsibility for the end result
 

ProfA

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isnt that what ADT and many security companies already do?
and outsurance with the pointsman project, do a job that they should be doing, but aren't

No. ADT is not the same as giving a business the power of a peace officer, which allows a business to issue lawful fines. It is not the same thing at all.
 

ProfA

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Agree with fines instead of turning everyone potential criminals but with the added proviso that fines are to be settled on the spot - well not on the directly as that would just lead to risks of violent robberies and corruption. Rather take the person away for payment as they do with outstanding warrants. It'd serve to inconvenience those found in violation and be a better deterrent than handing out a fine a person is free to ignore on some I'll only pay when you catch me routine. I've driven in some African countries and some of them have that in place for all drivers (not just foreigners like here) - they take you to the police station and you settle up on the stop. Doesn't stop corruption from unscrupulous officers who try to solicit bribes from foreigners on arbitrary violations but it'd be a start if we implemented that here. And if you are unable to settle up on the spot then you leave the vehicle in the custody nice traffic department until you can find the cash to pay up.

I see today is dumb idea day. Due process. Due process. Due ****ing process.
 

ProfA

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That's the problem, the culture... the culture of rip-off and fleecing.
However, they tried this privatization thing in the UK, that didn't end up working too well either.

The problem is people's attitudes... the taxi industry has a lot of responsibility for the end result

I agree and disagree here a little. The problem is NOT entirely the taxi industry. The problem is law enforcement who have allowed the taxi industry, and everyone else to run rough-shot over the laws of the roads.
 

noxibox

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And if I say the volumes are too high for a court system to handle, your solution is...?
Tough luck. Law enforcement needs to be able to prove their case. The Cape Town doesn't simply right off fines because they never get around to enforcing payment, but because one the process takes its course it turns out there were no grounds for the fine in the first place.

Yes. Privatise law enforcement. Make it in a business's financial interest to fine people. That will solve all our problems.
It went horribly wrong in the UK. But I'm sure private enterprise in South Africa has a strong moral code that would stop that from happening. Or maybe not.

Agree with fines instead of turning everyone potential criminals but with the added proviso that fines are to be settled on the spot - well not on the directly as that would just lead to risks of violent robberies and corruption. Rather take the person away for payment as they do with outstanding warrants. It'd serve to inconvenience those found in violation and be a better deterrent than handing out a fine a person is free to ignore on some I'll only pay when you catch me routine. I've driven in some African countries and some of them have that in place for all drivers (not just foreigners like here) - they take you to the police station and you settle up on the stop. Doesn't stop corruption from unscrupulous officers who try to solicit bribes from foreigners on arbitrary violations but it'd be a start if we implemented that here. And if you are unable to settle up on the spot then you leave the vehicle in the custody nice traffic department until you can find the cash to pay up.
That sounds like essentially the same thing as proposed. In other words an opportunity for police looking to swell the coffers to extort money from drivers. It will undoubtedly be extensively abused and there'll be no opportunity for proper due process.

isnt that what ADT and many security companies already do?
They get kickbacks from prisons? Do they get paid per person they successfully catch and get imprisoned? Are these people taken straight to jail or is there some sort of court hearing first? Pay the R100,000 fine or go straight to jail for a year? Not something I knew about South African security companies.
 

namzsteve

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Oct 12, 2012
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More visible policing. All sorts of morons on the road driving like s#!t anyhow, everybody will respect the rules and laws if there is traffic officer every 1km staring down at you but hey 80% of them buy data with bribe money, park their cars and watch youtube videos until they knockoff. All these unmanned speed cameras just don't it honestly. It makes more sense when someone is there operating the camera and can stand witness.
 

LazyLion

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Mar 17, 2005
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103,981
People just ignore the fines that will be issued when enforcing the existing laws, as can be seen on MyBB threads "I'll only pay if there is a summons". A point demerit system is needed where bad drivers can loose their licenses, and if yo udrive with a suspended license it must carry a very stiff punishment.

Loosen their licenses from what?
 

Eniigma

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Aug 18, 2006
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Fire all cops and replace with private companies!

isnt that what ADT and many security companies already do?
and outsurance with the pointsman project, do a job that they should be doing, but aren't

Yeah coz that works so well.

I witnessed it first hand in the UK. Pulled up in one of these pay and display parking lots where the enforcement was done by a private company. My co-worker parked, walked to the paypoint and came back to display it, and already had a ticket. Arguing with the issuer got him no where.

Do you really think a company here would be the solution?
 

Eniigma

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Agree with fines instead of turning everyone potential criminals but with the added proviso that fines are to be settled on the spot - well not on the directly as that would just lead to risks of violent robberies and corruption. Rather take the person away for payment as they do with outstanding warrants. It'd serve to inconvenience those found in violation and be a better deterrent than handing out a fine a person is free to ignore on some I'll only pay when you catch me routine. I've driven in some African countries and some of them have that in place for all drivers (not just foreigners like here) - they take you to the police station and you settle up on the stop. Doesn't stop corruption from unscrupulous officers who try to solicit bribes from foreigners on arbitrary violations but it'd be a start if we implemented that here. And if you are unable to settle up on the spot then you leave the vehicle in the custody nice traffic department until you can find the cash to pay up.

Geez that is a stupid idea too.

We'd end up with oke just being pulled over hand over their "papers" i.e. a R100 note and pulling off again with a smiling cop earning his "bonus". I mean far more regularly or blatently than already happening. Or cops pulling people over in taxis or buses that are required to have x equipment like a fire extinugisher or something and demanding a reciept or certificate or some proof of puchase for said equipment, even when the equipment itself if produced.

No the only thing we need is cops doing their job and the laws as they already are enforced and applied to all. It was never a broken system, it doesn't need to be fixed. Only enforced.
 

ToxicBunny

Oi! Leave me out of this...
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Apr 8, 2006
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People just ignore the fines that will be issued when enforcing the existing laws, as can be seen on MyBB threads "I'll only pay if there is a summons". A point demerit system is needed where bad drivers can loose their licenses, and if yo udrive with a suspended license it must carry a very stiff punishment.

No a point demerit system is not needed...

Fair and equal enforcement of the existing laws is all that is needed, and they need to start showing it with the Taxi's... until they do that they can fsck right off.
 

ProfA

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No a point demerit system is not needed...

Fair and equal enforcement of the existing laws is all that is needed, and they need to start showing it with the Taxi's... until they do that they can fsck right off.

This ^
 

ArtyLoop

Executive Member
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Dec 18, 2017
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And that's the reason right there why people ignore fines... what's good for the one, is good for the other. The traffic law enforcement have themselves to blame
 

reactor_sa

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Feb 6, 2009
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7,847
As long as JPSA then offers better suggestions on how to get the f'king morons on the roads to drive better, which will only happen if it either costs them time and/or money.
Impossible. The taxis are more than half the problem and they literally get away with murder.
 
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