Academic Salaries.

gboy

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I was discussing career paths with a friend and he mentioned that he is looking to going full time into academia.

What would the salary be like for an associate professor and a full professor, and say a lecturer. i know it takes years and a lot of work to reach these levels, but just in a ballpark.

Specifically looking Wits and Stellenbosh.
 

3WA

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A lot of fields also have industry bodies that subsidize academic salaries in that field (e.g. accounting, engineering, applied sciences). Basically, anything that is useful to society is likely subsidized.
 

surface

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Give or take 100K in P4/P5, salaries look similar to 2 other places I know of.

P4/P5 etc are just levels and I know of certain "managers" in BS (Business School, not what you are thinking of) with basic qualification reaching P5 way earlier (in terms of age) than academics route of lecturer, associate prof ..
 
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Naks

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In one word: shite.

That's why I GTFO of academia in 2007, never looked back.
 

3WA

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P4/P5 etc are just levels and I know of certain "managers" in BS (Business School, not what you are thinking of) with basic qualification reaching P5 way earlier (in terms of age) than academics route of lecturer, associate prof route..

Age old problem - you get paid more for managing the work than doing the work.
 

Dairyfarmer

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My friend is a lecturer with a masters and a PhD. He earns about 25% less than other, less qualified lecturers because BEE.
 

yaeger

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A lecturer gets around R100k a month before tax and other deductions. You can negotiate with HR when you are given an offer.
 

surface

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Age old problem - you get paid more for managing the work than doing the work.
In corporate, I can understand this. In academics, most managers don't have to do much really.
 

3WA

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My friend is a lecturer with a masters and a PhD. He earns about 25% less than other, less qualified lecturers because BEE.

Universities are hotbeds of new-age liberalism. You can identify as whatever you want. Your friend should go to HR and re-identify as a marginalised group.
 

gboy

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thanks, its not bad, and I expect its not a high stress job either, at least when i studied the profs did not look to stressed, classes when they wanted, days off when they wanted ect.
 

RandomGeek

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Academics can also make some good money on the side by doing consulting - varsities like this because it keeps the academics sharp and in touch with industry
 
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zolly

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In one word: shite.

That's why I GTFO of academia in 2007, never looked back.

Most of my family in academia (I'm not) could make big bucks in private/corporate jobs. They stick to academia because they want to teach people.
 

cguy

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I did the academic thing for a bit. For non-in-demand work, it's a really great alternative to industry. You get to teach, do research, write papers, and get completely involved in the world of academics, while simultaneously being payed pretty damn well in comparison to industry.

For in-demand work (so, CS, engineering, applied maths/stats, or even pivots such as physicists to finance), academia doesn't completely fall short of local industry. With a PhD you typically get to R~800k-ish as a Senior Lecturer as soon as you graduate (straight "Lecturer" is usually the pre-PhD entry point).

It is pretty hard to become an Associate Professor though (tenure), and a full professor. Many never get beyond Senior Lecturer, and many get stuck at Associate Professor. The factors involved in promotion here are numerous:
1) Research record
2) Teaching record
3) Internal University Politics (popularity, reputation, committee memberships, admin responsibilities, etc.)
4) External Politics (AA, BEE, etc.)

Many people become full time teachers, and their research goes out the window, which inhibits their promotions. Others focus only on research, which if very successful can dominate a lack of teaching, but only just.

Another consideration is that often "Professor" becomes a largely administrative job, and if (1) and (2), is what got you into the whole thing, managing a lab of mass MSc and PhD students, while coordinating undergaduate programmes, may not be for you either. As an FYI, other jobs such as Dean of Faculty, and Head of Department are really just code for "More Admin". Also, HoD isn't necessarily a permanent position, but a title that one holds for a few years and then gives to someone else (usually it comes with a temporary pay bump too, while held).

As others' have said, there is often a certain amount of time allowed for external consulting, or managing of founded spin-off companies. In practice, most academics just don't have time for this, or if they do, the academic side of their career tends to suffer. I have very ever rarely seen this well balanced.

Yet another other consideration is that although it is very noble for an academic who could work as an academic internationally, to choose to work in SA, most don't - academics want to work in the best universities, and best labs around the world. Better facilities, famous colleagues, access to conferences, collaborating with world leaders in their field, etc. is typically the primary desire of any research focused academic. This also means that many of your SA based colleagues are going to be pretty meh (with the exception of some very bright individuals who have chosen to stay in SA for personal reasons at the expense of their careers).

Another thing that also pulls academics out of universities is actually industrial research positions. Many tech and finance companies have exclusive research divisions, which focus on slightly more targeted research, but still allow paper publications, and collaboration with other universities or research labs. These are often the most sought after positions, offering several times the compensation of university academic positions, while typically also having no teaching responsibilities at all. Usually to get in one has to be the brightest of PhD graduates or postdocs, or a well established professor who would would sometimes retain their academic title, and be responsible for a cross industry-academia research collaboration.

Apart from the academic pulls above, there are plenty of non-academic research or research-and-development jobs overseas that would get the best PhDs from STEM. It's hard to consider going for an R800k/y starting salary, when there are R3-4.5m/y starter jobs out there, overseas. On top of that, the typical Senior Lecturer would only have 2 promotion steps ahead of them with minor pay bumps, which would typically take 5-10 years for Associate Professor and another 10-20 years for full professor, while industry has the potential to go way higher, way faster.

A final point is also that not all academic positions in SA offer the same salaries as SUN, UCT, WITS, etc., and due to the prestige, salary, desire to do academic work, etc., there is a lot of competition for these roles.
 

yaeger

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1.2 Million for a lecturer? Where ?
It's a bit more when when you add overtime, research grants and external projects(Cisco Academy, Huawei Academy, MS Academy, Telkom Center of Excellence and community development projects) It largely depends on your experience and and skill set. External projects bring in more than double my annual salary so I got to negotiate a high salary.
 

Naks

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Most of my family in academia (I'm not) could make big bucks in private/corporate jobs. They stick to academia because they want to teach people.
IME, most people who go to university are not interested in learning - they just want a piece of paper that gets them a job afterwards.

The few that do want to learn are the ones who carry on with postgraduate studies.
 
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