Accusations fly at human rights hearing into transgender woman's Brazilian wax complaint

[Zoomzoom]

Its already been done when women said #menaretrash just because they have the equipment to rape, pls tryna keep up mkay..

um ... ye-esssssssss ... given the tone of my comment, what makes you think I am unaware of the fact that there is a tendency in human beings to lump everyone into the same category? How many ways can you finish the following sentence ...

All (insert racial or cultural group of your choice) .....(action of your choice) ...

 

[konfab]

There's no way to know. That's the problem. Once you start messing with these things, you enter a problematic area you can't get out of. Like the radio guy said - how do we decide who's rights are more important? The trans woman with balls who demands a wax, or the girl in the salon who doesn't want to touch balls? There is absolutely no way to decide, and that means we're at an impass and stalemate. Something's gotta give, and no matter what decision is made, someone's basic human rights will apparently be offended.

The bathroom thing is a red herring.

At places with showers(where the problem actually manifests) , just build a "family" room for disabled people, the mentally ill who think they are someone/something else, and people with children.

The bigger picture is that this is the inevitable clown consequence of having the state directly intervene in private business.
The intentions might have been noble, but I think dealing with the bacteria of racism is easier than dealing with the cancer of politics. The former needs antibiotics (public boycott etc), the latter needs chemotherapy.

 

[Ancalagon]

You have been rather scarce lately. Welcome back.

Emigration will do that to you! But thanks.

Truth be told, I haven't really missed this place. I drop in from time to time, but I doubt I'll become a regular again.

 

[Swa]

The bathroom thing is a red herring.

At places with showers(where the problem actually manifests) , just build a "family" room for disabled people, the mentally ill who think they are someone/something else, and people with children.

The bigger picture is that this is the inevitable clown consequence of having the state directly intervene in private business.
The intentions might have been noble, but I think dealing with the bacteria of racism is easier than dealing with the cancer of politics. The former needs antibiotics (public boycott etc), the latter needs chemotherapy.

No just build separate stalls. Solves everyone's problems. I never understood the point of men standing in a line showing their dicks.

 

[Emjay]

The bathroom thing is a red herring.

At places with showers(where the problem actually manifests) , just build a "family" room for disabled people, the mentally ill who think they are someone/something else, and people with children.

The bigger picture is that this is the inevitable clown consequence of having the state directly intervene in private business.
The intentions might have been noble, but I think dealing with the bacteria of racism is easier than dealing with the cancer of politics. The former needs antibiotics (public boycott etc), the latter needs chemotherapy.

In the changing rooms of a gym / sports facility setting, women walk around pretty much naked and get changed in the open. Often, the toilets are in or near this area. I don't mind using the same bathroom as a man as long as there are stalls. But having a man walk around the changing, shower and sauna areas is a hard no. And if I see a man in that area, I will tell him to leave immediately.

 

[Toxxyc]

In the changing rooms of a gym / sports facility setting, women walk around pretty much naked and get changed in the open. Often, the toilets are in or near this area. I don't mind using the same bathroom as a man as long as there are stalls. But having a man walk around the changing, shower and sauna areas is a hard no. And if I see a man in that area, I will tell him to leave immediately.

But what if that man identifies as a woman?

 

[Zoomzoom]

In the changing rooms of a gym / sports facility setting, women walk around pretty much naked and get changed in the open. Often, the toilets are in or near this area. I don't mind using the same bathroom as a man as long as there are stalls. But having a man walk around the changing, shower and sauna areas is a hard no. And if I see a man in that area, I will tell him to leave immediately.

I agree. There should be no mixing of the sexes in changing rooms. Toilets I don't mind so long as it is just stalls. I certainly do not want to see men at a urinal. I just don't want to see someone else urinating. Bathroom functions are private functions - I don't want to see or hear yours and you shouldn't see or hear mine.

I'm fairly private in changing rooms as well - always have been. Actually won't use them if there isn't a private cubicle of some kind to use.

 

[Zoomzoom]

But what if that man identifies as a woman?

Three sets of bathrooms. Sorry. But that is the only way everyone can feel comfortable. I don't think anyone should be forced to feel uncomfortable. And there is an argument for why men would be uncomfortable with women, or women with men, and transgendered people in either bathroom, yet there are many who are very comfortable with whatever who would use a mixed gender space quite happily.

 

[Emjay]

I agree. There should be no mixing of the sexes in changing rooms. Toilets I don't mind so long as it is just stalls. I certainly do not want to see men at a urinal. I just don't want to see someone else urinating. Bathroom functions are private functions - I don't want to see or hear yours and you shouldn't see or hear mine.

I'm fairly private in changing rooms as well - always have been. Actually won't use them if there isn't a private cubicle of some kind to use.

After a while you just kind of give in to the public nudity thing in the change rooms. It's such a schlep carrying all my bits and bobs to and from a locker to get changed, shower, etc. I have seen so many female bodies it's not really even worth thinking about. But, that's our space and really, no man should be there if he has not had a full sex change.

 

[Toxxyc]

Three sets of bathrooms. Sorry. But that is the only way everyone can feel comfortable. I don't think anyone should be forced to feel uncomfortable. And there is an argument for why men would be uncomfortable with women, or women with men, and transgendered people in either bathroom, yet there are many who are very comfortable with whatever who would use a mixed gender space quite happily.

While I don't disagree, it does pose a problem. They INSIST they are women, because they identify as women. Placing them in a different bathroom is "discrimination", and infringes their human rights. They demand to be let into the women's bathroom because they demand they should be allowed to.

 

[ShaunSA]

No just build separate stalls. Solves everyone's problems. I never understood the point of men standing in a line showing their dicks.

Nee **** have you seen the queue's for the ladies. Men go much faster thanks to urinals.

And if you're seeing other guys dicks it's because you're looking.

 

[Zoomzoom]

While I don't disagree, it does pose a problem. They INSIST they are women, because they identify as women. Placing them in a different bathroom is "discrimination", and infringes their human rights. They demand to be let into the women's bathroom because they demand they should be allowed to.

Sigh, I know, but I don't know any other way to solve the problem. As a woman (and I know others feel this way too), I don't care what clothes you are wearing, if you have a penis, I don't want to see it in a changing room. I don't particularly even want to see other women's private bits TBH.

Maybe this sparks a return to an era where there is no public nudity at all. Change in cubicles which you can lock. Then it doesn't matter if the communal space is for all sorts. Everyone goes into a cubical to get naked.

 

[Toxxyc]

Sigh, I know, but I don't know any other way to solve the problem.

And that's where we all sit. We don't know how to solve the problem. I have suggestions, but it's "frowned upon" apparently.

 

[Zoomzoom]

And that's where we all sit. We don't know how to solve the problem. I have suggestions, but it's "frowned upon" apparently.

Look I think that when you are an outlier on the list of things to be accommodated you are going to have to accept that there will be challenges in getting your needs met. Things are built for the needs of the majority - and the majority are normal gendered men and women. Any accomodation for any other categories isn't going to be universal, or absolutely convenient. And they just have to accept that. Just like disabled people have to accept that there aren't always going to be absolutely ideal facilities to accommodate their disability. It might be unfair, but that is just how it is in society.

 

[The Free Radical]

Humanity gives too much attention to twinkies who are a tiny minority.

 

[ArmatageShanks]

But a substantive question remained at the core of the raucous daylong hearing: should a business be allowed to deny service on the basis of gender identity?

Yes, a business should be allowed to deny you service for whatever reason they please, be it you are fugly or that they want to go take a nap.

It's a different story if its an essential business like hospitals or so.

 

[Toxxyc]

Look I think that when you are an outlier on the list of things to be accommodated you are going to have to accept that there will be challenges in getting your needs met. Things are built for the needs of the majority - and the majority are normal gendered men and women. Any accomodation for any other categories isn't going to be universal, or absolutely convenient. And they just have to accept that. Just like disabled people have to accept that there aren't always going to be absolutely ideal facilities to accommodate their disability. It might be unfair, but that is just how it is in society.

I'm going to be really annoying here and say that those people will take offence when you refer to majority as "normal gendered", because that automatically classes them as abnormal...

I'm kidding, a bit, but that's really where we're heading toward. These people are firmly of the belief that there are no difference between a naturally born woman and a man who thinks he's a woman, cock'nballs and all. Therein sits the problem. That problem can not reasonably be solved, by the looks of it, without stepping on at least someone's toes.

I'm damn glad I'm not the legal eagle who has to decide on this case.

 

[Zoomzoom]

I'm going to be really annoying here and say that those people will take offence when you refer to majority as "normal gendered", because that automatically classes them as abnormal.

Look I think my stance on tolerance is fairly well documented, but let's not get confused here. Accepting people in all their glorious difference is one thing, but normal is a biological male with male genitals and a biological female with female genitals attracted to each other. God, the universe, evolution or the goddamn fairies made it this way for the purpose of reproduction to ensure the continuation of the species. If someone feels differently, does it differently, wants to stick whatever, where-ever, good for them, but it is not the biologically mandated normal.

And the bottom line is that without boy sperm and girl eggs there are no new human beings. Biology trumps all.

 

[Grant]

. I never understood the point of men standing in a line showing their dicks.

you're supposed to stand there staring stoically ahead, and not be browsing.
i, on the other hand . . .

 

[Grant]

And the bottom line is that without boy sperm and girl eggs there are no new human beings. Biology trumps all.

well said sister
without your reproduction endeavors, my kind would be facing imminent extinction.
lets just say there is a bit of a symbiotic relationship going on here