Activision Blizzard Sued Over ‘Frat Boy’ Culture, Harassment

kolaval

Executive Member
Joined
May 13, 2011
Messages
6,764
What a mess.

Sexual harassment and atrocious behaviour by some of the males overshadowed by nonsense.

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IMG_20210724_062612.jpg
 

JangoFett

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2021
Messages
846
One thing that has always amazed me is that the developers in these companies could typically double or triple their income just by changing industries, but don’t, because they want to be on the credit list for Start Craft, World of Warcraft, Diablo, etc.

I mean, perhaps they could conceivably be proud of the enemy AI system, path finding, predictive networking or 3D rendering, etc., but the majority are responsible for exporting models to files, game installation, credit card processing, managing subscriptions and identity, leaderboards, opponent pairing, packaging, secure logins, multi-language support, sound/control/display menu options, cut scene replay, or just general debugging. Nothing wrong with any of this of course, but just not the sort of thing I would expect people to sacrifice a better livelihood for.
Nonsense. They aren't self-respecting fanbois, they're corporate lackey sell-outs. No wonder Blizzard's games have all turned into steaming piles of doodoo.
 

Blackhand

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2004
Messages
607
One thing that has always amazed me is that the developers in these companies could typically double or triple their income just by changing industries, but don’t, because they want to be on the credit list for Start Craft, World of Warcraft, Diablo, etc.

I mean, perhaps they could conceivably be proud of the enemy AI system, path finding, predictive networking or 3D rendering, etc., but the majority are responsible for exporting models to files, game installation, credit card processing, managing subscriptions and identity, leaderboards, opponent pairing, packaging, secure logins, multi-language support, sound/control/display menu options, cut scene replay, or just general debugging. Nothing wrong with any of this of course, but just not the sort of thing I would expect people to sacrifice a better livelihood for.
It's an unfortunate reality of working for most large game dev studios at the moment. The studios have a good talent pull because the devs are passionate about the work and games. The studios can exploit this by offering poor salaries and benefits (relatively), there just aren't many employment options to work on titles you grew up with at that scale. I got into software because 20 years ago it would have been a dream come true to work at Blizzard.

Any dev doing skilled work at a game studio like Blizzard (engine dev, low level networking, distributed computing and scaling) could easily triple their salary, get better benefits and lower their stress by jumping ship out of game dev.
 

wizardofid

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
8,044
Yes, who aren't developers. So I'm not talking about them at all.

Amazingly you quoted this twice, somehow got the second quote wrong, and then responded to it twice. :) I get the gist though. The bigger studios, however, have highly customized art pipelines and tools that require constant developer support.


You do realize that I didn't say that, right? I said "the majority are responsible for exporting models to files, game installation, credit card processing, managing subscriptions and identity, leaderboards, opponent pairing, packaging, secure logins, multi-language support, sound/control/display menu options, cut scene replay, or just general debugging."

That's a non-exhaustive list of exemplars, on which they spend their time.


As scintillating as building one army bunker after the next may be, I promise you that if you can get a million dollar a month job, it would probably be a lot more exciting. :)

The bigger studios, however, have highly customized art pipelines and tools that require constant developer support.
No they don't. Good god. In house modeling tools are rare, studio use off the shelve tools. The exception being smaller tools like model viewers or quick editing tools.They may have in house tools that assist in the generation of seamless textures, as well creation of shader materials much like commercial off the shelve tools. They aren't "higly customized".

3d max
Substance Painter
ZBrush
Photoshop
maya
Quixel
Softimage XSI (now defunct and merged into 3D max pipeline, however this was valve's main development tool for assets) Valve had a plugin for XSI that allowed importing of half-life, counterstrike levels ect to allow easier creation of asset props as needed. Before autodesk got their hands on it, it was pretty much the industry standard, for movies and games alike. 3D max has since taken over those duties.

These are just some examples of industry standard tools in use.

Well what do you know, requirements are off the shelve commercial tools. As mentioned scripting and some coding exprience being expected of 3d artists isn't uncommon.

That's a non-exhaustive list of exemplars, on which they spend their time.
No they don't, 3D artists, does game art and that is it, same with regards to programmers, animators, sound engineers ect. They have associates for tasks like these, while in a small in studio with fewer staff and such there may additional tasks being delegated outside of their respective duties they normally do.

As scintillating as building one army bunker after the next may be, I promise you that if you can get a million dollar a month job, it would probably be a lot more exciting.
Well lets see just finished a project for a company that required assets for their commercial product.That required themed modern day buildings.It was officially released in their software this week. Before that themed content for their VR software based in malta and a couple of other themes geared towards kids and introduction course into game development. Sold content to the same company that they released in several DLC's on their product page with varying themes.

Did content for this software as well


Currently my DLC that is being sold under license is on the steam's best sellers list.

DLC.jpg

Yip this would be me, sold the license

Sold under license for 5 years, after which the license reverts back to me or they extend the license.However this DLC will likely be renewed, as I already have approval to revamp the current DLC for their new software and expand and improve on the content. I am also currently working on another DLC which is to released in the next two months or so, based on indoor/outdoor sewers.

It's the exception rather then a hard rule that it is the same old themed content, there are exceptions of course. But there is always some thing new to tackle especially with new engine and software technologies, there is always some thing new to do and tackle, with regards to 3D artistry the assumption that it gets boring is far removed from reality, there is always some thing new to do, an industry where constant improvement is required to stay ahead in the market place as well.

Much like the game industry, movie industry experiences similar pitfalls, with long hours and tight deadlines which does make it a high pressure environment that can take the fun out of the job, it isnt much different to any other job that is highly competitive, with budgets and time constraints.

It still doesn't get boring and still wouldn't trade it for any thing else, expression through art is wonderful and is never the same thing every time. It is always exciting to see what players have to say about what you have expressed with the content you present them and it is what motivates to improve and design new and exciting worlds to explore for players.

So no dude I have been there done that and got the tshirt.
 
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cguy

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
7,440
No they don't. Good god. In house modeling tools are rare, studio use off the shelve tools. The exception being smaller tools like model viewers or quick editing tools.They may have in house tools that assist in the generation of seamless textures, as well creation of shader materials much like commercial off the shelve tools. They aren't "higly customized".

3d max
Substance Painter
ZBrush
Photoshop
maya
Quixel
Softimage XSI (now defunct and merged into 3D max pipeline, however this was valve's main development tool for assets) Valve had a plugin for XSI that allowed importing of half-life, counterstrike levels ect to allow easier creation of asset props as needed. Before autodesk got their hands on it, it was pretty much the industry standard, for movies and games alike. 3D max has since taken over those duties.

These are just some examples of industry standard tools in use.
This just shows that you have a complete disconnect between what you do and what the bigger studios do. Do you really think Blizzard, Ubisoft, EA, Bungie, Rockstar, etc. don't write their own plugins for the above, along with their own standalone tools and plugins for augmenting lighting, animation, textures, procedural generation, visibility, LoD, and deployment packaging and integration into their backend?

Well what do you know, requirements are off the shelve commercial tools. As mentioned scripting and some coding exprience being expected of 3d artists isn't uncommon.
Well... I expect that if they required people with experience with their own proprietary pipeline tools, they probably wouldn't have too many applicants...

:rolleyes:

Perhaps you should be wondering what their Animation Programmers do:
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/compa...220909-animation-programmer-technology-group-

Or their Tools Programmers:
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/company/careers/search/743999762700165-tools-programmer

Or even, the other 507 programming jobs they have going...

No they don't, 3D artists, does game art and that is it, same with regards to programmers, animators, sound engineers ect. They have associates for tasks like these, while in a small in studio with fewer staff and such there may additional tasks being delegated outside of their respective duties they normally do.
The programmers all do game art? Really?

Did content for this software as well
This has 7 reviews...
Currently my DLC that is being sold under license is on the steam's best sellers list.
This has 8 reviews...
It's the exception rather then a hard rule that it is the same old themed content, there are exceptions of course. But there is always some thing new to tackle especially with new engine and software technologies, there is always some thing new to do and tackle, with regards to 3D artistry the assumption that it gets boring is far removed from reality, there is always some thing new to do, an industry where constant improvement is required to stay ahead in the market place as well.

Much like the game industry, movie industry experiences similar pitfalls, with long hours and tight deadlines which does make it a high pressure environment that can take the fun out of the job, it isnt much different to any other job that is highly competitive, with budgets and time constraints.

It still doesn't get boring and still wouldn't trade it for any thing else, expression through art is wonderful and is never the same thing every time. It is always exciting to see what players have to say about what you have expressed with the content you present them and it is what motivates to improve and design new and exciting worlds to explore for players.

So no dude I have been there done that and got the tshirt.
Well, I'm a big fan of your MetalWall_1 through to MetallWall_45 series. Looking forward to the sequels.
 

noxibox

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
21,043
Guys take silence from a woman when they are being knowingly disrespectful/inappropriate to women as permission to be more disrespectful/inappropriate.
You can see how years of women not saying anything to rock the boat during the early days of the company could morph into the situation it is now.
Most people in most companies stay silent about everything.
 

wizardofid

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
8,044
This just shows that you have a complete disconnect between what you do and what the bigger studios do. Do you really think Blizzard, Ubisoft, EA, Bungie, Rockstar, etc. don't write their own plugins for the above, along with their own standalone tools and plugins for augmenting lighting, animation, textures, procedural generation, visibility, LoD, and deployment packaging and integration into their backend?


Well... I expect that if they required people with experience with their own proprietary pipeline tools, they probably wouldn't have too many applicants...

:rolleyes:

Perhaps you should be wondering what their Animation Programmers do:
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/compa...220909-animation-programmer-technology-group-

Or their Tools Programmers:
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/company/careers/search/743999762700165-tools-programmer

Or even, the other 507 programming jobs they have going...


The programmers all do game art? Really?




This has 7 reviews...

This has 8 reviews...

Well, I'm a big fan of your MetalWall_1 through to MetallWall_45 series. Looking forward to the sequels.

You are aware the base program for the dlc has about 500k users and still only has about 1000+ reviews additional not uncommon for dlcs to get less reviews, in fact all of the dlcs have reviews in the teens.

That includes games, as an example consider borderlands 3 gold weapons skin pack has a mere 20 reviews. So it actually proves the point exactly how out of touch you really are, while reviews is helpful for the buyer but it doesnt really indicate whether or not it is popular or is selling well. While I won't divulge actual sales to be honest it isn't any of your business, I will tell you the dlc under license has paid the initial development cost and profit a 100 times over and then some.Plus it is on the steam best sellers consistently and was released nearly 3 years ago_Of course there are dlc with more reviews, however it isnt uncommon for dlcs to products to not receive matching reviews.

Go figure.


Besides you aren't listening, studios whether ea, ubisoft, or which ever giant does NOT use proprietary software in their development.When I say industry standard I mean industry standard whether indie or triple AAA studio or a freelance artist or developer use the exact same tools.You can walk into valve, or EA studio two completely studios in the type of games they use, and the tools used will pretty spot on between the two.

The differences comes in with engine specific tools, used specifically for in house engines, these are smaller utilities for unique or specific tasks, neither replacements for actual industry developed tools developed 100+ strong team with millions dollars of research and develop going into these industry standard tools.

So no EA isnt going to develop a in house 3D modeling program there is no need to nor will it be as powerful and functional as a dedicated engineered tool.It is simpler and cheaper as well as requiring less man power to use off the shelve software solutions. The additional benefit of using off the shelve solutions is the over all compatibility with projects and various sections of the studio.If a studio does have custom tools it wouldn't even be 10% of their total software solutions.

Really now a studio is going to develop their own Photoshop please.......get real.I dare you to email ANY triple A studio and ask them whether or not tools listed in that post forms part of the majority most used tools in the production of a game.I stake my reputation on it.

It is overall more and more uncommon for studios to maintain and develop their own engine and associated tools or software Just isn't cost effective.

The obvious sarcasm with regards to metal textures.However the irony is Iam selling a commercial SciFi texture pack with about 80 odd textures and will be able to do another completely unique 80 texture pack at the drop of hat without much hassle without it being repetitive in the least.You see to have this impression of see one metal barrier you seen all metal barriers.

Okay then find a commercial game, product, asset pack that has a similar style and design elements to the cold war pack. In fact I will help make your search easier, the cold war pack was model around the soviet union submarine base found in the Ukraine. Would gladly eat my words if you can find some thing that matches the look and style to the letter, otherwise you are taking out your ass.

However considering you seem to have insider development knowledge I don't, I must humbly apologize for that oversight, I clearly wasn't thinking when posting..........dude get bent......
 

CommonSense

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
675
There is no pure capitalism. It’s just a broad umbrella term.

As I understand capitalism is about making the most profit for shareholders.
The main idea behind investing in a company is that you get awesome returns on the money you are "risking".

Hence if the company can get away with the least expenditures to provide a product that people want to buy, and then sell that product at a cost which people would purchase it for, then that would ensure more profit for shareholders.

The board of directors listens to the shareholders more than the employees.

Thus if you can pay your employees minimum for their input, your profit margins would be more.

Come on, you have seen this plenty of times even in South African companies, where - even though the company still makes a healthy profit - they retrench staff to cut down on expenditures.
This action clearly indicates that shareholders and profits are the main driving force.

Even you and what-his-name would say that paying staff more would not be in the interests of a company as that would be socialistic in nature.
 

wizardofid

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
8,044
As I understand capitalism is about making the most profit for shareholders.
The main idea behind investing in a company is that you get awesome returns on the money you are "risking".

Hence if the company can get away with the least expenditures to provide a product that people want to buy, and then sell that product at a cost which people would purchase it for, then that would ensure more profit for shareholders.

The board of directors listens to the shareholders more than the employees.

Thus if you can pay your employees minimum for their input, your profit margins would be more.

Come on, you have seen this plenty of times even in South African companies, where - even though the company still makes a healthy profit - they retrench staff to cut down on expenditures.
This action clearly indicates that shareholders and profits are the main driving force.

Even you and what-his-name would say that paying staff more would not be in the interests of a company as that would be socialistic in nature.

It is not uncommon during production of game to hire additional staff and then retrench as the production winds down. .Job security in the industry is next to none. The overall turnover of staff is pretty high, there is no denying that they do treat their staff like expendable commodities. However studios that either work with or owned by publishers work on shoe string budgets, and quite hard assed and not very flexible on over expenditures or missing of deadlines, it often results in penalties and other financial losses.
Studio's don't make a cent until after productions costs have been made and the publishers has reached profit goals set in their contract, which is fair as publishers are the ones fronting the money for the development costs.

It is quite cutthroat the media doesn't necessarily paint a pretty picture or accurate picture for that matter, but because of the way the industry works and having to pay up front for development costs and general lengthy development cycle of games taking any thing from 2 to 4 years. Most studios are permanently in survival mode.

So they aren't necessarily evil by nature just shitty results of the production of games in general, studio's aren't to blame, the bigger culprit is the publisher overlord, they are ones raking in all the money.
 

Brenden_E

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
7,111
What a mess.

Sexual harassment and atrocious behaviour by some of the males overshadowed by nonsense.

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This is where it becomes really muddled. You can't measure pay by time. The female employee may not be as good and that's why she did not get the raise.

The sexual harassment if true sounds insane though. Who passes a naked picture of a colleague around? But more so, how did they get a naked picture?

Wild.
 

KoKaRoT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
394
I really wouldn't mind if these pr1cks get a taste of their own medicine. Since we live in a snowflake world and people cannot bare any form of resistance online, as that results in a report if you disagree.

I appealed to them for a ban I received, they ignored it and looked the otherway.

Shame.
 

cguy

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
7,440
You are aware the base program for the dlc has about 500k users and still only has about 1000+ reviews additional not uncommon for dlcs to get less reviews, in fact all of the dlcs have reviews in the teens.
Many "users", low reviews. Well, that's what happens when you give away a hunk-o-junk for free. ~2mins of usage per user (of 200k-500k) according to SteamSpy.

Amusingly, you were mentioned explicitly in this tear down of the company and product:
https://crappygames.miraheze.org/wiki/GameGuru
That includes games, as an example consider borderlands 3 gold weapons skin pack has a mere 20 reviews. So it actually proves the point exactly how out of touch you really are, while reviews is helpful for the buyer but it doesnt really indicate whether or not it is popular or is selling well.
Yeah, I couldn't possibly imagine why the "gold weapons skin pack" with 45% positive reviews isn't popular enough to get more reviews...

Besides you aren't listening, studios whether ea, ubisoft, or which ever giant does NOT use proprietary software in their development.When I say industry standard I mean industry standard whether indie or triple AAA studio or a freelance artist or developer use the exact same tools.You can walk into valve, or EA studio two completely studios in the type of games they use, and the tools used will pretty spot on between the two.
Nope. If you think AAA studios are waiting for Adobe or Autodesk to give them the features they need, you are quite deluded. Regardless, there is far more than just the art pipeline, which is just a straw man - I explicitly mentioned a list of exemplars, most of them non-art related.

So no EA isnt going to develop a in house 3D modeling program <snip>

Really now a studio is going to develop their own Photoshop please.......get real.I <snip>
Actually, I explicitly said otherwise...

The obvious sarcasm with regards to metal textures.However the irony is Iam selling a commercial SciFi texture pack with about 80 odd textures and will be able to do another completely unique 80 texture pack at the drop of hat without much hassle without it being repetitive in the least.You see to have this impression of see one metal barrier you seen all metal barriers.
It's hardly irony - I saw that you are actually selling metalwall_1 through 45.

In the same thread you even say:
extremely long hours, often repetitive, mundane stuff for next to nothing, however because it pays in dollars and pounds it is worth for me.
and
It still doesn't get boring and still wouldn't trade it for any thing else, expression through art is wonderful and is never the same thing every time.
Apart from your bizarre inconsistency, your experiences are actually completely irrelevant, given that my comments were explicitly directed at developers working on non-game-play aspects of the product, not 3D artists at all.
 

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
53,689
So we appear to have two game developers here.

Gentlemen - there used to be an online game called "psychobabble".
It was hosted by Popcap.
Would it be possible to develop / resurrect the game for here?

Psychobabble
 
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