Activision Blizzard Sued Over ‘Frat Boy’ Culture, Harassment

Gyre

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
2,559
Sadly what the metoo believeallwomen stuff taught me was have to take everything with a pinch of salt... gonna be loads of 15min famers muddying the waters looking for new followers etc coming out of the woodwork over this

The women have been quiet because of the "take everything with a pinch of salt" attitude over the years - why would someone complain if they are the only one who had this experience? Often more people coming out shows them that they weren't crazy and that these dudes really are this bad.

From the articles it seems people tried to address the issues internally before it became public.
 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
17,258
The major irony is of course.... women as a group literally did this to themselves.

If it was not for the radical (and well supported) feminist push to "free" womanhood from the "repressive" traditional safety it was "trapped" in by using hyper-sexuality..... the hyper-sexualization of the female form in gaming would never have happened.

You saw first this starting in the 80's with heavy metal influenced fantasy fiction and it just kept on chugging from there.

Now if ever someone mentions a desire of censor anything they deem offensive to their sensibilities they get trolled heavily or even outright scolded indignantly for DARING to want to harm the beloved art so many enjoy in what in my opinion is utter perversity be it sexual, cursing or violent. This is why these woman are so scared of addressing how they are being constantly degraded.

Feminism ( and the new rebellious vhemently anti-Christian culture) created the climate making it possible and immature males did whatever was best for them..... and refused to grow up because no one forced them to. If you want to abuse your own physical form to get attention.... you forfeit the right to become indignant when the attention is not always desired. There is nothing to actually stop a snowball once it starts other than a wall..... if you break down all walls....
 

Emjay

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
11,788
The major irony is of course.... women as a group literally did this to themselves.

If it was not for the radical (and well supported) feminist push to "free" womanhood from the "repressive" traditional safety it was "trapped" in by using hyper-sexuality..... the hyper-sexualization of the female form in gaming would never have happened.

You saw first this starting in the 80's with heavy metal influenced fantasy fiction and it just kept on chugging from there.

Now if ever someone mentions a desire of censor anything they deem offensive to their sensibilities they get trolled heavily or even outright scolded indignantly for DARING to want to harm the beloved art so many enjoy in what in my opinion is utter perversity be it sexual, cursing or violent. This is why these woman are so scared of addressing how they are being constantly degraded.

Feminism ( and the new rebellious vhemently anti-Christian culture) created the climate making it possible and immature males did whatever was best for them..... and refused to grow up because no one forced them to. If you want to abuse your own physical form to get attention.... you forfeit the right to become indignant when the attention is not always desired. There is nothing to actually stop a snowball once it starts other than a wall..... if you break down all walls....

Alex Afr(whatever) literally stuck his hand up a woman's skirt and digitally assaulted her. He groped her breasts. There is no way to talk around this.

But you do the whole "it's her fault" scthick.

99.9999% of men I have interacted with understand this wrong. The culture at Blizzard allowed this behaviour to manifest, hence why we are hearing about so many of these stories coming out from one company.
 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
17,258
Alex Afr(whatever) literally stuck his hand up a woman's skirt and digitally assaulted her. He groped her breasts. There is no way to talk around this.

But you do the whole "it's her fault" scthick.
I did not do that though.

Please point me to where exactly I was excusing any of it?
 

noxibox

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
21,027
I always laugh when big companies trumpet their zero tolerance for retaliation policy. I'm never sure whether the upper executives who do this are naïve or stupid. Any manager can find ways to harass someone under them in ways that are impossible to prove and at best make the employee complaining look like they're just being paranoid.

Those same managers also like to give that too sensitive to criticism speech any time someone questions the legitimacy of the content of a performance evaluation.

Looking at the behaviour mentioned here you can be sure that these guys were also making the lives of many male employees miserable.

The women have been quiet because of the "take everything with a pinch of salt" attitude over the years - why would someone complain if they are the only one who had this experience? Often more people coming out shows them that they weren't crazy and that these dudes really are this bad.

From the articles it seems people tried to address the issues internally before it became public.
The problem is that unless the accusations are independent you can't know.

Believe was always the wrong word. Take seriously is more accurate. Those who advocate believing, i.e. accepting as true without evidence, either don't know the meaning of the word or they don't really care because they want to punish men or they're those nuts who think women never give erroneous information. So take seriously, and investigate. Never simply believe.
 

Herr der Verboten

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
11,089
Alex Afr(whatever) literally stuck his hand up a woman's skirt and digitally assaulted her. He groped her breasts. There is no way to talk around this.

But you do the whole "it's her fault" scthick.

99.9999% of men I have interacted with understand this wrong. The culture at Blizzard allowed this behaviour to manifest, hence why we are hearing about so many of these stories coming out from one company.
Females being paid less, kept in shitty positions (and harassment) seems to be employment 101 for most places. Even big multi billionaire engineering firms I worked at. We've complained about it, but it is a culture...

edit
gets even more fun when you throw in race, religion and being from another country
 

Temujin

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
12,825
The women have been quiet because of the "take everything with a pinch of salt" attitude over the years - why would someone complain if they are the only one who had this experience? Often more people coming out shows them that they weren't crazy and that these dudes really are this bad.

From the articles it seems people tried to address the issues internally before it became public.
I have no doubt a lot of it is factual, and a lot will come out in court... but not going to believe every /r or /twitlonger thread that pops up... metoo/believeallwomen has taught us better... in amoungst all the facts and people trying to get the truth out is people with personal grips for being fired for **** work or something seeing opportunities to try get their revenge. We've been here before, people being fired, families destryed over manufactured claims by people looking for their 15min to get more followers etc
 

noxibox

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
21,027
As I understand capitalism is about making the most profit for shareholders.
No, that's a piece of propaganda that really came to prominence from the 80s. Companies had no obligation to shareholders. You invested if you wanted and took your chances. You also expected to wait a long time for it to bear fruit.

The word capitalism however is a broad term.

Come on, you have seen this plenty of times even in South African companies, where - even though the company still makes a healthy profit - they retrench staff to cut down on expenditures.
It's a standard practice at many US companies. Games companies are particularly notorious in this regard. This is all a result of chasing short-term gains and the modern shareholder worshipping cult. A key cause of this problem is that executives have a conflict of interest. They don't care about the long-term health of the company as long as they can pump and dump the stock.

This action clearly indicates that shareholders and profits are the main driving force.
None of which is relevant to the fact that capitalism is a broad term.

Even you and what-his-name would say that paying staff more would not be in the interests of a company as that would be socialistic in nature.
Socialism is too a broad term. But no, balancing where the money goes would not be socialist. It would be very smart though. Nothing in capitalism prohibits narrowing the gap between the executives' and the rest's pay. In fact even many top executives from the period before the 1980s have expressed their dismay at how top executives have used their influence to enrich themselves and how wide the pay gap has become. As a shareholder I have no interest in companies poisoning society just so some sociopaths can expand their bank account.
 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
17,258
99.9999% of men I have interacted with understand this wrong. The culture at Blizzard allowed this behaviour to manifest, hence why we are hearing about so many of these stories coming out from one company.
And the culture at Blizzard materialized because it mirrors general gaming culture. Given how utter perverse a majority of "gaming culture" has been especially since the 90's beyond the mere 25% most non-gamers interact with I find it largely unsurprising that a company creating games would itself have a culture of perversion.

Upon reflection this whole saga is almost as unsurprising to me as the Weinstein saga was..... if an industry thrives on perversion for entertainment then it should not be surprising that it contains many perverts given how it encourages such things.

This current saga is the fruit of seeds planted decades ago, I won't be surprised if most major game companies that routinely produce games with woman in clothing resembling prostitutes and touting it as some kind of ideal..... has similar problems internally.

It is not uncommon to find vulgarity and sex obsession in many online "gaming communities".... in fact it's actively encouraged, there are certain members on these forums that also push that envelope.

If you have a situation where there is active encouragement to view the female form as meant for promiscuous physical pleasure...... how is it surprising that many actually start believing it and eventually acting it out?

The current environment where this problem is probably more prevalent than many realize could only have been created with female consent.
 

Emjay

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
11,788
And the culture at Blizzard materialized because it mirrors general gaming culture. Given how utter perverse a majority of "gaming culture" has been especially since the 90's beyond the mere 25% most non-gamers interact with I find it largely unsurprising that a company creating games would itself have a culture of perversion.

Upon reflection this whole saga is almost as unsurprising to me as the Weinstein saga was..... if an industry thrives on perversion for entertainment then it should not be surprising that it contains many perverts given how it encourages such things.

This current saga is the fruit of seeds planted decades ago, I won't be surprised if most major game companies that routinely produce games with woman in clothing resembling prostitutes and touting it as some kind of ideal..... has similar problems internally.

It is not uncommon to find vulgarity and sex obsession in many online "gaming communities".... in fact it's actively encouraged, there are certain members on these forums that also push that envelope.

If you have a situation where there is active encouragement to view the female form as meant for promiscuous physical pleasure...... how is it surprising that many actually start believing it and eventually acting it out?

The current environment where this problem is probably more prevalent than many realize could only have been created with female consent.

It's funny you rag on the gamer types. Every single one of the male gamers and streamers I follow online have come out and completely shredded Blizzard for what is going on here. Even ones who I thought would come out with some criticism of the women involved. Even across all the gaming forums I follow. MyBB is the ONLY place I have seen anything close to what you posted.

I have been a gamer for a very long time - DotA, LoL, WoW, CS, BF, you name it. One of my earliest memories of gaming was on this:

1627391301044.png

Even competed in some leagues. Was a raid leader in a progression focused guild for WoW. That is not my experience at ALL. Sure, I get eye roll comments and exposed to some porn now and then, but I have never been harassed through a game or because of a game.

However, all of the instances that I have experienced where I have been harassed sexually (i.e. inappropriate touching, forceful kissing, inappropriate propositions in the workplace etc) are from men that are the polar opposite of the gamer types. Weird that.
 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
17,258
It's funny you rag on the gamer types. Every single one of the male gamers and streamers I follow online have come out and completely shredded Blizzard for what is going on here. Even ones who I thought would come out with some criticism of the women involved. Even across all the gaming forums I follow. MyBB is the ONLY place I have seen anything close to what you posted.
Even pimps can be shocked at bad treatment of ho's.

Streamers do what they do for money, the one's that make the most money are not the type to actually act like sex crazed maniacs.

Probebly this being the only place of this kind of commentary you have been exposed to is that no one want's to look at the full picture or the real root causes for why sexual harassment is more common now than it was in the past.... they want to have their cake and eat it.

I have been a gamer for a very long time - DotA, LoL, WoW, CS, BF, you name it. One of my earliest memories of gaming was on this:

View attachment 1115236

Even competed at some events. Was a raid leader in a progression focused guild for WoW. That is not my experience at ALL. Sure, I get eye roll comments and exposed to some porn now and then, but I have never been harassed through a game or because of a game. Both my sisters have the same experiences.
Never tried to play call of duty much have you...... but that's a very "special" kind of gamer from what I heard.

But also one thing that can be cause of our experiential difference is I almost never play online games, ever. I have always played single player, it is here that most often the mentalities of the developers and bosses materialize. In online gaming it's mostly just rampant infantility.... which is part of why I avoid those games increasingly like the plague.

And then there is the veritable explosion of porn games this last decade which has started making me wary of rls sites.... you think things are bad now? It's only going to get worse.... by the time you notice a change in behaviour the shift already happened a generation or two previously.

However, all of the instances that I have experienced where I have been harassed sexually (i.e. inappropriate touching, forceful kissing, inappropriate proportions in the workplace etc) are from men that are the polar opposite of the gamer types. Weird that.
That's cause many "gamer types" are generally too scared or smart to actually act it out. It's different in a corporate environment where people begin to feel a odd sense of personal power whether they actually posess it or not. People are more likely to act out their desires when they believe it cannot backfire.
 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
17,258
It's funny you rag on the gamer types. Every single one of the male gamers and streamers I follow online have come out and completely shredded Blizzard for what is going on here. Even ones who I thought would come out with some criticism of the women involved. Even across all the gaming forums I follow. MyBB is the ONLY place I have seen anything close to what you posted.
Also.... if you want to fit in with the crowd and "be cool"..... you don't make the mistake of attacking something universally praised.

From my understanding, unless you fit in with online gamer communities.... you don't last long.
 

Emjay

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
11,788
Even pimps can be shocked at bad treatment of ho's.

Streamers do what they do for money, the one's that make the most money are not the type to actually act like sex crazed maniacs.

Probebly this being the only place of this kind of commentary you have been exposed to is that no one want's to look at the full picture or the real root causes for why sexual harassment is more common now than it was in the past.... they want to have their cake and eat it.


Never tried to play call of duty much have you...... but that's a very "special" kind of gamer from what I heard.

But also one thing that can be cause of our experiential difference is I almost never play online games, ever. I have always played single player, it is here that most often the mentalities of the developers and bosses materialize. In online gaming it's mostly just rampant infantility.... which is part of why I avoid those games increasingly like the plague.

And then there is the veritable explosion of porn games this last decade which has started making me wary of rls sites.... you think things are bad now? It's only going to get worse.... by the time you notice a change in behaviour the shift already happened a generation or two previously.


That's cause many "gamer types" are generally too scared or smart to actually act it out. It's different in a corporate environment where people begin to feel a odd sense of personal power whether they actually posess it or not. People are more likely to act out their desires when they believe it cannot backfire.

Your posts are so full of contradictions I am not going to get to all of them. I am not even sure what you are trying to say anymore. According to your own logic, male gamers would then make more money pandering to their male audiences (which are overwhelmingly male) than making a stand.

There is no way to determine if sexual harassment is more prevalent now than it was in the past. In the past cultural norms were different and this stuff was swept under the carpet. Ask your parents or grandparents if they are still alive about how this stuff was never spoken about and instances of abuse and harassment were swept under the rug.

Even before the sexual revolution women were sexualized to a massive degree. This is nothing new.

STRONG NSFW WARNING.


I doubt things will get "way" worse. Many studies suggest future generations will be more conservative.

You judge a community but have not taken part in any of it. Yes, some parts of the community are infantile because there are CHILDREN playing many of these games. Many parts of it are absolutely not where there are clans, guilds or groups of professionals who play together and form relationships or bond over a game.

You and I will agree to disagree on this one. While every community has its problems, overall the gaming community is not what you paint it to be (which oddly is just like the "journalists" in Gamergate would describe it).

Men consume porn. Yeah, is water wet? The only reason it is being consumed at higher rates is because of the internet and the ease at which it is to get hold of. Men can also consume porn and be "sexual maniacs" but are able to control themselves and treat women properly. This is the case for the majority of men. Men are inherently more sexual than women. Those that cannot control themselves come from all walks of life and need to be reminded when they are stepping out of bounds. Nothing more. Nothing less.

What we do know is that sexual harassment is taken seriously in most workplaces, as it should. Some places just need a good reminder of what is appropriate, and what is not. What is sad is that it took so damn long.
 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
17,258
Your posts are so full of contradictions I am not going to get to all of them. I am not even sure what you are trying to say anymore. According to your own logic, male gamers would then make more money pandering to their male audiences (which are overwhelmingly male) than making a stand.
Just the streamers, they are public persona's. You won't ever find a real presentation of the common gamer in a popular streamer, the unpopular one's are closer to the average.

There is no way to determine if sexual harassment is more prevalent now than it was in the past. In the past cultural norms were different and this stuff was swept under the carpet. Ask your parents or grandparents if they are still alive about how this stuff was never spoken about and instances of abuse and harassment were swept under the rug.
Well there's one major difference right there..... it's at best no less than in the past but either way it's less hidden. The harassers are more bold now.

Even before the sexual revolution women were sexualized to a massive degree. This is nothing new.

STRONG NSFW WARNING.

And yet it was believed shameful to engage in by polite society..... not the case anymore.

I don't see anything on that page or in it's text remotely as bad as porn has gotten..... when I say woman are objects in modern porn (including the games).... I mean it literally.

I doubt things will get "way" worse. Many studies suggest future generations will be more conservative.
Potentially wishful thinking, I see nothing indicating that the current trends will be reversed except by future generations being so shell shocked that they demand a reverse back to traditionalism.

You judge a community but have not taken part in any of it. Yes, some parts of the community are infantile because there are CHILDREN playing many of these games. Many parts of it are absolutely not where there are clans, guilds or groups of professionals who play together and form relationships or bond over a game.
I would not go that far, back when lans were a thing I participated in a few...... the players ranging from teenagers to in their 30's generally reacted much the same way though age did mellow things a bit. And again I do not focus solely on online gamers.... I focus on all gamers and I have read through my share of gaming forums.

Inevitably you find gross hyper-sexualization of the female form, casual mysogeny and a huge apatite for cursing and gore. It all started in the single player games, it's still in the single player games, and eventually it inevitably spilled over into online gaming.... and all of this can be traced back to the 80's metal band aestetic and fantasy fiction feeding each other constant violence, vulgarity and almost naked woman.

You and I will agree to disagree on this one. While every community has its problems, overall the gaming community is not what you paint it to be (which oddly is just like the "journalists" in Gamergate would describe it).
The funny thing.... if not for the absurdity of the "journalists" I largely agreed. Nothing they attacked was news to me but at the time I still basically just ignored it, now I ignore the games that contain it.

I did find it funny how they kept bombing because they kept attacking soft targets and blaming "all men" though. They were nothing other than stereotypical man-haters, that's why they never got anywhere.

Men consume porn. Yeah, is water wet? The only reason it is being consumed at higher rates is because of the internet and the ease at which it is to get hold of. Men can also consume porn and be "sexual maniacs" but are able to control themselves and treat women properly. This is the case for the majority of men. Men are inherently more sexual than women. Those that cannot control themselves come from all walks of life and need to be reminded when they are stepping out of bounds. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Except that there are many myths in this narrative, the main one that what feeds you won't shape your fruit.

The more porn anyone, male or female. engages in, the more it shapes their thinking patterns. Porn is not some inert material, it changes the way your brain functions. The more porn you expose yourself to, the more you become prone to acting it out.... and the more extreme the porn becomes you need and the more extreme the things you start acting out.

What we do know is that sexual harassment is taken seriously in most workplaces, as it should. Some places just need a good reminder of what is appropriate, and what is not. What is sad is that it took so damn long.
Like I said, gaming culture encourages group think and not standing out. Any woman that complains is considered less of a gamer.... it's stupid but that's how it happens.

And any man that complains is considered less of a man. I should know, I have tried to civilly raise a few issues in the past and except for a few sensible people basically got shouted down..... every time.

One of the most common kneejerk retorts I got? "It's rated M for mature, just accept it for what it is."

The culture itself is resistent to being cleaned up, that is why it took so long for the woman to complain.
 

Emjay

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
11,788
Just the streamers, they are public persona's. You won't ever find a real presentation of the common gamer in a popular streamer, the unpopular one's are closer to the average.


Well there's one major difference right there..... it's at best no less than in the past but either way it's less hidden. The harassers are more bold now.


And yet it was believed shameful to engage in by polite society..... not the case anymore.

I don't see anything on that page or in it's text remotely as bad as porn has gotten..... when I say woman are objects in modern porn (including the games).... I mean it literally.


Potentially wishful thinking, I see nothing indicating that the current trends will be reversed except by future generations being so shell shocked that they demand a reverse back to traditionalism.


I would not go that far, back when lans were a thing I participated in a few...... the players ranging from teenagers to in their 30's generally reacted much the same way though age did mellow things a bit. And again I do not focus solely on online gamers.... I focus on all gamers and I have read through my share of gaming forums.

Inevitably you find gross hyper-sexualization of the female form, casual mysogeny and a huge apatite for cursing and gore. It all started in the single player games, it's still in the single player games, and eventually it inevitably spilled over into online gaming.... and all of this can be traced back to the 80's metal band aestetic and fantasy fiction feeding each other constant violence, vulgarity and almost naked woman.


The funny thing.... if not for the absurdity of the "journalists" I largely agreed. Nothing they attacked was news to me but at the time I still basically just ignored it, now I ignore the games that contain it.

I did find it funny how they kept bombing because they kept attacking soft targets and blaming "all men" though. They were nothing other than stereotypical man-haters, that's why they never got anywhere.


Except that there are many myths in this narrative, the main one that what feeds you won't shape your fruit.

The more porn anyone, male or female. engages in, the more it shapes their thinking patterns. Porn is not some inert material, it changes the way your brain functions. The more porn you expose yourself to, the more you become prone to acting it out.... and the more extreme the porn becomes you need and the more extreme the things you start acting out.


Like I said, gaming culture encourages group think and not standing out. Any woman that complains is considered less of a gamer.... it's stupid but that's how it happens.

And any man that complains is considered less of a man. I should know, I have tried to civilly raise a few issues in the past and except for a few sensible people basically got shouted down..... every time.

One of the most common kneejerk retorts I got? "It's rated M for mature, just accept it for what it is."

The culture itself is resistent to being cleaned up, that is why it took so long for the woman to complain.

Agree on much and disagree on much.

Women are not sex objects in games. If you pay attention, women often are critical to the core storyline of many games. As a woman playing games, I have never felt objectified or that a character is being objectified. Anime culture on the other hand is quite overt in it however. It does not stop me from the enjoyment of it however. Woman are often revered in Anime, so it's weird one.

But this is veering off topic.
 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
17,258
Agree on much and disagree on much.

Women are not sex objects in games. If you pay attention, women often are critical to the core storyline of many games. As a woman playing games, I have never felt objectified or that a character is being objectified. Anime culture on the other hand is quite overt in it however. It does not stop me from the enjoyment of it however. Woman are often revered in Anime, so it's weird one.

But this is veering off topic.
Depends on the game, sometimes the woman are just objectified and sometimes they are revered as objects. As the valid point had been made countless times..... what possible reason could there be for woman in games to always be as naked as possible? As if the more skin is shown the more powerful she is..... only one reason actually comes to mind.

This is gotten around by making the woman who looks like a prostitute important to the story..... but still the obsession with hypersexualization of the female form remains as if it serves an objective function.

But this is something completely different to idolization.... which the gamergate nutcases were also against. Japan is different in how it manages to either idolize, revere or objectify woman.... and often some kind of mix of the three.... and it gets VERY wierd. I refuse to play any kind of visual novel at this point..... I stick to the toned down anime.

Aside from these instances woman in games are sometimes actual people too.... but this is a more modern phenomena... and often actually rather cosmetic by nececity as if you think about it.... in a game gender does not REALLY matter unless you are going for some specific kind of realism.

The problem is in the past as a way to change woman from simply being objects of reveration an insane emphasis was placed on objectification. To some this made sense because taking duke nukem for example.... the character is a hyperbolic objectification of 80's masculinity.... but none of the objectification was sexual.... as the representation of mythological manhood HE did the objectification. It was a fun exercise in DN3D because the character itself was clearly a joke but then came Duke Nukem Forever and..... that game was nasty.... just nasty.... and stupid.

But anyway, my opinion formed from observation over decades..... "gamer culture" is still centered around the whims of the perpetual hormonal 15jr old boy. All video's in this thread showing the supposed adults from Blizzard and Activision proves this. There has been progress made I admit but the "old guard"..... for the most part seems to never have grown up. A lot of seeming progress in my opinion though.... is only token so no one gets into trouble.

I have seen nothing so far in either games or "hardcore" gamers to change this opinion. I would love for games to treat woman with actual respect, but the temptation to cheapen them seems irrisistable for developers. And them actually acting out their nurtured perversions in the form of harassment is no real surprise to me.
 

DA-LION-619

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
13,045
We have guys like that right here in the Masters of the Universe Revelation thread complaining that Teela isn’t sexy and feminine enough.
Hey soyboy stop simp’in like a thot.
Yeah nerds and developers are the problem
/s
 
Top