"Africans a Liberate Zimbabwe" - Bob Marley

IamCanadian

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Recently the Andre Brink told his shocked countrymen that he is no longer able to tell outsiders that SA is moving in the direction of democracy, truth and justice. "I can no longer do that."

White farmers I spoke to on the telephone last week told me that their great fear is that a "Mugabe-style" land revolution will "just happen."
"We have watched events in Zimbabwe unfold since 2000, " said one worried farmer's wife whose children -all in their 20s and 30s - live in Commonwealth countries. "Over a million whites have left South Africa since 1994. We stayed on because we said -This is our home. But now? We're being treated like ****."

More and more whites are packing their bags for Europe, North America and Australasia thanks to Justice Minister Charles Nqakula who described whites who criticize President Mbeki's policies, or lack of them, as "unpatriotic moaners."

He said:" They can continue to whinge until they're blue in the face or they can simply leave the country."


http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/viewinfo.cfm?linkcategoryid=3&linkid=8&id=2452

For those who complain that I am a troll, I have something constructive to say.

Here it is: Why don't you vote the ANC out of power?
 

Ekhaatvensters

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Who is "you"? The white majority of this forum?

Whites cannot do a thing politically, except maby try to make the masses see an alternative. But as you might notice with Zuma's huge grassroots support, this isnt easy.

The masses are black, rural and see the ANC as their saviours. So they ANC will reap the rewards of having ended Apartheid for a long time to come. Probably until they achieve thier goal of a huge black middle class, which might well then turn on them.
 

IamCanadian

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Who is "you"? The white majority of this forum?

Whites cannot do a thing politically, except maby try to make the masses see an alternative. But as you might notice with Zuma's huge grassroots support, this isnt easy.

The masses are black, rural and see the ANC as their saviours. So they ANC will reap the rewards of having ended Apartheid for a long time to come. Probably until they achieve thier goal of a huge black middle class, which might well then turn on them.

I was talking to the people who think I am a troll and then flame me. They keep asking me to offer constructive solutions, so I did.

Vote for someone other than the ANC or their ilk.

Maybe this would help, but I doubt it.

Africa is Africa and will always be Africa.
 

nocilah

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I was talking to the people who think I am a troll and then flame me. They keep asking me to offer constructive solutions, so I did.

Vote for someone other than the ANC or their ilk.

Maybe this would help, but I doubt it.

Africa is Africa and will always be Africa.

right. you do realise a majority of the population are to thick headed to choose anything other then their chiefs, regardless if they have to take a dump in a shack 400 hundred meters from the shack they sleep in.

but you answered your own.

Africa is Africa and will always be a sh1thole.
 

Highflyer_GP

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I was talking to the people who think I am a troll and then flame me. They keep asking me to offer constructive solutions, so I did.

Vote for someone other than the ANC or their ilk.

Maybe this would help, but I doubt it.

Africa is Africa and will always be Africa.
How about not assuming who we're politically aligned with? I'm against many ANC policies, as are many people here, but for every vote against the ANC there are probably 5 votes for them. As pointed out already most people who vote for them live in rural areas and view them as their saviours.

The question is can you blame them given that they were subjected to decades of discrimination? Put yourself in these peoples shoes, they are underpriviledged now because of the effects that apartheid had on their previous generations. 12 years is barely one generation - how many people do you know of who were able to reverse their lives from being poor to being middle class in the space of 12 years, and without a proper education? They're "thick headed" because they were not afforded a decent education by the previous regime. And here we have millions of poor people. The crime problem will only decrease once more and more people are elevated into the working to middle class. This doesn't magically happen in the space of 12 years.

So yes in this case you do blame apartheid for the millions of poor people, and therefore the current crime rate. During apartheid white people didn't notice the crime because they were sheltered from it, protected from it by the government. But it was still a problem for everyone else.

You're speaking to an informed group of people here - we know what the problems are, what possibly needs to be done, however we are outnumbered by the masses in choosing a more responsive party to lead the country. So what's the point of asking us not to vote for the ANC? Still, I'd much rather have this government than an apartheid government where you would be jailed simply for being caught in an area that wasn't designated to your race.

PS: the ANC doesn't make up the government, even though they might be the majority. All parties who won sufficient votes to earn seats in parliament do.
 

IamCanadian

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How about not assuming who we're politically aligned with? I'm against many ANC policies, as are many people here, but for every vote against the ANC there are probably 5 votes for them. As pointed out already most people who vote for them live in rural areas and view them as their saviours.

Highflyer, I did not assume who you are politically aligned with. Al I said was that you should vote them out. How you do that is up to you. Why not try a grassroots movement. Learn to speak Xhosa and Zulu or whatever language is in the country. Then lauch a platform that is against crime, supports families and education and jobs and then you will get to change things. Or not. Daunting task but not impossible. Yet somehow I doubt that white South Afrcans will rise to that challenge so that means that you are stuck with the ANC, Manto's and Zuma's. If this is the case then whites are finished in SA. Get used to it.

The question is can you blame them given that they were subjected to decades of discrimination? Put yourself in these peoples shoes, they are underpriviledged now because of the effects that apartheid had on their previous generations. 12 years is barely one generation - how many people do you know of who were able to reverse their lives from being poor to being middle class in the space of 12 years, and without a proper education? They're "thick headed" because they were not afforded a decent education by the previous regime. And here we have millions of poor people. The crime problem will only decrease once more and more people are elevated into the working to middle class. This doesn't magically happen in the space of 12 years.

What about the Indians(first nations) of Canada and America, the same thing happened to them. To the victors go the spoils. In South Africa the blacks will get the spoils and that will leave the whites with nothing. Do I blame them, no. If I was in their shoes I would do the same. You are living in an illusion if you think that millions of people will be somehow magically put into the middle class. It won't happen in your life time or your childrens lifetime. If you were living in China or India, I would say this may be possible sooner rather than later. Alas you live in Africa and if it ever does happen it will be much much later. Say maybe 2000 years. (I exagerate, but you get my point don't you?)

So yes in this case you do blame apartheid for the millions of poor people, and therefore the current crime rate. During apartheid white people didn't notice the crime because they were sheltered from it, protected from it by the government. But it was still a problem for everyone else.

C'mon dude. I don't just blame apartheid. The ANC and their corrupt minions and partners(PAC, COSATU, SACP, etc etc) are equally to blame. But further to this I also think that all people in SA are to blame, black or white for the current sorry state of affairs today. Why? Because the heart of man is naturally evil and greedy. This will never end. Only when people really start loving their neighbors will this end. This is unlikely but not impossible.

Still, I'd much rather have this government than an apartheid government where you would be jailed simply for being caught in an area that wasn't designated to your race.

Do you realize what you are saying? As bad as the previous stupid government was, you would prefer one that is dripping with corruption like honey dripping from a honey bee's hive. You prefer a goverment that only cares about itself and practises reverse racism and tolerates crime and murder and rape. I even read on a black south africans website that they are justifying crime saying that it is like a second wave of liberation to take back what was stolen from them by the settlers. You prefer a government that would swiftly fall like a rotten maggot sqirming over a dead corpse if put to the a vote in a country like Canada where people would never tolerate it's stupidity? You say you are informed. Are you really?

PS: the ANC doesn't make up the government, even though they might be the majority. All parties who won sufficient votes to earn seats in parliament do.

In a few years the ANC and their cohorts like Zuma will not just make up the government they will own it just like the Zimbabwe goon government of Bob Mugarbage.
 
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Highflyer_GP

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You are living in an illusion if you think that millions of people will be somehow magically put into the middle class. It won't happen in your life time or your childrens lifetime. If you were living in China or India, I would say this may be possible sooner rather than later. Alas you live in Africa and if it ever does happen it will be much much later. Say maybe 2000 years. (I exagerate, but you get my point don't you?)
That part I do agree with - never said that it would happen in a short period of time, and yes I do agree that the ANC is a slow moving party. But to the majority of South Africans they would rather have this government than an apartheid one.
Do you realize what you are saying? As bad as the previous stupid government was, you would prefer one that is dripping with corruption like honey dripping from a honey bee's hive. You prefer a goverment that only cares about itself and practises reverse racism and tolerates crime and murder and rape. I even read on a black south africans website that they are justifying crime saying that it is like a second wave of liberation to take back what was stolen from them by the settlers. You prefer a government that would swiftly fall like a rotten maggot sqirming over a dead corpse if put to the a vote in a country like Canada where people would never tolerate it's stupidity? You say you are informed. Are you really?
Yip that's pretty much what I'm saying and I'm sure there are alot of white South Africans with me on this. You obviously haven't been subjected to apartheid-type discrimination have you? Yes there are some question marks surrounding the race issue in AA/BEE (which I am against btw) but think of it this way: now the majority has more freedom (from having NO freedom) while the minority have less freedom (from having ALL the freedom) and the two meet somewhere inbetween there's bound to be some conflict.

Now before jumping to any conclusions, I'm in the minority too. However if you were a spoon-fed person and were given a Ferrari to drive for 50 years, and now had to make do with a Toyota, you would obviously be pissed off about it. Same principle applies here - it's not so much whites being discriminated against, it's more about the majority of blacks being given more rights than they used to have. Now they too are given Toyota's to drive, so as to create some form of balance. And if you feel that you're too high and mighty to be driving the same car as a black man, then you suffer from a superiority complex that was hardwired into your brain during apartheid.

So to answer your question - yes I do think I'm informed because I try to think of things from the perspective of other people as well, instead of being selfish and thinking from my own perspective which would benefit only me. If you are right and this place does turn into Zim (highly unlikely as their main industry is agriculture, as opposed to our many), then I will admit that I was stuffed up in my way of thinking and relocate. Some may argue it may be too late by then, but that's why it's always good to have a decent amount saved in case of emergencies.

However for now, I'm no psychic nor do I believe in predicting the future, so I will stay. If you guys want to relocate based on what might happen because certain "signs" tell you so then go ahead. To me it's retarded to base one's actions on a hunch, but hey to each his own.

In a few years the ANC and their cohorts like Zuma will not just make up the government they will own it just like the Zimbabwe goon government of Bob Mugarbage.
As I said, I don't believe in fortune tellers, so we'll see what happens.
 

Alan

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They're "thick headed" because they were not afforded a decent education by the previous regime.


It sounds fine in theory but how come a certain portion of the S.A population were "thick headed" and continued to vote for the N.P when they had access to a decent education.
 

HosstheBoss

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...However if you were a spoon-fed person and were given a Ferrari to drive for 50 years, and now had to make do with a Toyota, you would obviously be pissed off about it.

I just love the way some people assume that being white in the bad old days you just got what you wanted.

I'm not taking a swing at you here Highflyer I know this is not what you're saying :p it's just that so many people use this point as the core of their perception of whites, that we were spoon fed, taken care of, given everything.

I work in these rural areas that you chaps are talking about and with the "lower class" blacks; and many are of the opinion that we just got our houses that we live in, we just got our motor cars etc.

we had privileges as the white race in the apartheid era, no doubt, but I know my father and my grandfather worked for what they have today!
 
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Highflyer_GP

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I'm not taking a swing at you here Highflyer :p it's just that so many people use this point as the core of their perception of whites, that we were spoon fed, taken care of, given everything.
I understand that which is why I deliberately didn't use the words spoon-fed white person. I'm using a practical example to illustrate human rights by equating it to a material possession, that's all ;) No offense to anybody.

And on that note I'm off to Auto Africa now, see you guys later :p
 

Syndyre

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It sounds fine in theory but how come a certain portion of the S.A population were "thick headed" and continued to vote for the N.P when they had access to a decent education.

Because most people are uneducated even if they have been given an education. They may be educated academically but in the real world it doesn't always seem to help much.
 

dominic

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boring
you are a troll - this posts proves it more than anything
the forum is about broadband
stfu

//that's my vote anyway, unconstructive as it may be
 

Alan

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Oops IAMCANADIAN seems to have been blacklisted by the "liberal league" members. Forever doomed to be abused for airing his views.

:D

* I can't help myself *
 

Vrotappel

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The question is can you blame them given that they were subjected to decades of discrimination? Put yourself in these peoples shoes, they are underpriviledged now because of the effects that apartheid had on their previous generations. 12 years is barely one generation - how many people do you know of who were able to reverse their lives from being poor to being middle class in the space of 12 years, and without a proper education? They're "thick headed" because they were not afforded a decent education by the previous regime. And here we have millions of poor people. The crime problem will only decrease once more and more people are elevated into the working to middle class. This doesn't magically happen in the space of 12 years.

So yes in this case you do blame apartheid for the millions of poor people, and therefore the current crime rate. During apartheid white people didn't notice the crime because they were sheltered from it, protected from it by the government. But it was still a problem for everyone else.

If apartheid is to blame for the millions of poor people in SA what is there to blame for the rest of Africa? I think being poor is an African thing. I think this country would have been much worse off if the white man never came.
 

Vrotappel

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boring
you are a troll - this posts proves it more than anything
the forum is about broadband
stfu

//that's my vote anyway, unconstructive as it may be

Yep agreed not very constructive. This is the News & Current Affairs section if you did not notice it.
 

Vrotappel

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Oops IAMCANADIAN seems to have been blacklisted by the "liberal league" members. Forever doomed to be abused for airing his views.

:D

* I can't help myself *

Yep those members living with their heads up their a$$e$ and don't realise what is happening to this country.
 

IamCanadian

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Then you'll came back and start aparheid all over again.:confused:

I am against apartheid. It was reprehensible then and still is today!

When I meant vote, I meant you should all come together as one mind in peace, family, jobs and education and then vote for what's right.

Will this happen? I doubt it.
 

IamCanadian

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Yip that's pretty much what I'm saying and I'm sure there are alot of white South Africans with me on this..

OK. Would you like sprinkles on top of your ice cream sir?

If that is what you want then I say go for it Highflyer.

Just remember that Africa is for the Africans and that whites are now the minority. Minorties in the world never do very well under a corrupt government and a corrupt and failing justice system.
 

IamCanadian

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boring
you are a troll - this posts proves it more than anything
the forum is about broadband
stfu

//that's my vote anyway, unconstructive as it may be

So if you post a bad news article in the "News and Current Affairs" part of this forum and then make a critical observation, what does that make you?

A homegrown troll?
 
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