AfriForum Warns Against One Sided Apartheid Crime Prosecutions

Cray

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I have attributed the source of every post I have made on this thread as I knew the usual would ask for sources.. Your accusation is baseless.
Was just reading through your previous posts and I realised you reposted a previous part of your original post of yours where you did in fact cite the source, my apologies.
 

JuliusSeizure

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There is a lot about crimes that happened during apartheid that we don't know about both committed by the liberation movements and by the pro-apartheid forces.

Sadly, we are probably not going to find a lot because some will go to the graves with their secrets.
 

JuliusSeizure

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. Rodriquez wasn't found guilty anyway and he was a clerk that happened to be at the place. The Timol case is purely religious as Timol was a Muslim and suicide brings dishonour on the family. They needed a murderer to restore family dignity.

Does Rodriguez have a criminal record or do you think he was innocent?
 

Howdy

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There is a lot about crimes that happened during apartheid that we don't know about both committed by the liberation movements and by the pro-apartheid forces.

Sadly, we are probably not going to find a lot because some will go to the graves with their secrets.
Sadly? Open your virtual ears. A secret is no secret if you are being told what happened, yet you refuse to listen. However you prefer a heavily sterilized and biased history. Harps & violins ...

There were devils and demons on all sides. It was a war never declared, yet fought with intensity.

Refusing to listen dooms the next generation to repeat was has happened before. Quite frankly it was all in vain and South Africa has learnt f-all.
 

JuliusSeizure

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Refusing to listen dooms the next generation to repeat was has happened before. Quite frankly it was all in vain and South Africa has learnt f-all.

As much as we can all moan about South Africa not being ideal (it is not), the international community does not intervene because it's not among the worst nations out there. That's why Ernst Roets did not get his desired reception when he went to the USA on his "world must know" campaign. He only really got the attention of Tucker Carlson who has very low credibility (he should actually have not agreed to that interview because it only harmed the credibility of his campaign) as Tucker is not even respected in conservative circles. There are far better conservative and centrist journalists he could have worked with like Dave Rubin.

South Africa is far from the best nation on earth but if you read up on the situation in Afghanistan or Syria etc, it's also far from the worst out there but could be a lot better.
 

Howdy

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As much as we can all moan about South Africa not being ideal (it is not), the international community does not intervene because it's not among the worst nations out there. That's why Ernst Roets did not get his desired reception when he went to the USA on his "world must know" campaign. He only really got the attention of Tucker Carlson who has very low credibility (he should actually have not agreed to that interview because it only harmed the credibility of his campaign) as Tucker is not even respected in conservative circles. There are far better conservative and centrist journalists he could have worked with like Dave Rubin.

South Africa is far from the best nation on earth but if you read up on the situation in Afghanistan or Syria etc, it's also far from the worst out there but could be a lot better.
Why are you chirping about Ernst and Tucker now? We're talking about events more than 20 years back.

Your whole concept of history is flawed and your mind poisoned to not recognize reality, even if it slaps you in the face. Somehow you think attacking the messenger makes it right. It does not.
 

JuliusSeizure

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Why are you chirping about Ernst and Tucker now? We're talking about events more than 20 years back.

Your whole concept of history is flawed and your mind poisoned to not recognize reality, even if it slaps you in the face. Somehow you think attacking the messenger makes it right. It does not.

This thread is about Afriforum and Ernst did make a failed trip to the US so it is relevant (he failed to get endorsements from anyone credible) and 99.9% of people outside SA have never heard about the "world must know campaign".

If you read my original post which you responded to, I did say crimes from both sides must be revealed where possible.
 
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Cosmik Debris

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This thread is about Afriforum and Ernst did make a failed trip to the US so it is relevant (he failed to get endorsements from anyone credible) and 99.9% of people outside SA have never heard about the "world must know campaign".

If you read my original post which you responded to, I did say crimes from both sides must be revealed where possible.

This thread is about AfriForum calling out the ANC for selective prosecution for apartheid crimes. Not about Roet's trips to the USA. Focussing on that is deflection.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Does Rodriguez have a criminal record or do you think he was innocent?

Who knows? His prosecution as a minor functionary was politically inspired. There are plenty ANC high ups that were never granted amnesty that were never prosecuted for far worse crimes.
 

JuliusSeizure

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Who knows? His prosecution as a minor functionary was politically inspired. There are plenty ANC high ups that were never granted amnesty that were never prosecuted for far worse crimes.

He admitted to raping his own daughter. He was a danger to society and there is certainly good reason to believe he murdered Timol.


You conveniently avoided that thinking you could fool people with your Cosmik delusions of grandeur.
 

Cosmik Debris

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There is a lot about crimes that happened during apartheid that we don't know about both committed by the liberation movements and by the pro-apartheid forces.

Sadly, we are probably not going to find a lot because some will go to the graves with their secrets.

Plenty documented and by some former MK like Paul Trewhela. But you and many others stick your fingers in your ears at the mention of these. Herewith an extract from Paul Trewhela's book on the ANC camps in Angola:

In 1981 began a time of terror and death for ANC members in exile. In February a strong ANC National Executive Committee entourage which incuded President Tambo made the rounds of all ANC camps in Angola.....

.....I became aware of these developments by word of mouth, but I was to discover later on, by personal experience, the terror of Quatro, to name but one death camp. People were removed from amongst us -- taken to Quatro or Camp 13 -- and disappeared forever without reason. Many of them were slaughtered by one means or another and their ultimate destination was a shallow grave. We heard rumours of execution by being buried alive, amongst many other techniques beyond civilized imagination. The purge created great fear amongst all of us, to the point where the smallest criticism, such as of badly prepared food, was seriously reconsidered by every individual, for one could never be certain that a 'best friend' would keep his mouth shut.....

....Our own security people became exceedingly arrogant, to the point where an innocent slip of the tongue or even a simple gesture could land you in a torture cell at Quatro. Security men of the lowest rank and intelligence -- fourteen to eighteen year olds -- became our masters, with the power of life or death in their hands. They acted on a mood with impunity.....

....Oliver Tambo visited Pango [Camp] at the height of the terror. The path from the entrance to the admin building was lined -- like a scene from 'Spartacus' -- with men, bloodied and filthy, hanging from trees. When his entourage arrived at admin, where I was officer on duty, Tambo's chief of staff told us that there would be a meeting at 'the stage' (a clearing in the jungle..
 

Cosmik Debris

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He admitted to raping his own daughter. He was a danger to society and there is certainly good reason to believe he murdered Timol.

Which automatically makes him guilty of murdering Timol? A storeman with no investigative function? No trial needed then according to you.

Care to comment on some of the ANC guys?

Or won't you do that?
 

JuliusSeizure

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Which automatically makes him guilty of murdering Timol? A storeman with no investigative function? No trial needed then according to you.

Care to comment on some of the ANC guys?

Or won't you do that?

He was a loon so it's more probable than not he murdered Timol. You are just defending him because he's white.

I have said that all injustices should be exposed which includes ANC crimes and Apartheid force ones.
 

Howdy

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He was a loon so it's more probable than not he murdered Timol. You are just defending him because he's white.

I have said that all injustices should be exposed which includes ANC crimes and Apartheid force ones.
Seriously? :ROFL:

They're ANC members, so it probable than not that they're thieves, murderers and rapists.


Or do we use black/brown/yellow for that? Or is that the EFF? Or DA? Or

Have you ever considered the problem is not so much all the other side (your collective), as the oke looking back at you in the mirror when you brush you teeth? Take a good look at him, there's your problem.
 

Howdy

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This thread is about Afriforum and Ernst did make a failed trip to the US so it is relevant (he failed to get endorsements from anyone credible) and 99.9% of people outside SA have never heard about the "world must know campaign".

If you read my original post which you responded to, I did say crimes from both sides must be revealed where possible.

By your logic we can equally make it about agriculture, pig breeding (I have a business plan here), pollution, Greta and greenhouse gas ... however we want to twist it.

It's about Afriforum calling out ANC on their BS. Nothing to do with the trips etc.
 

Vrotappel

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Rather inaccurate cartoon by Zapiro. Rodriquez wasn't found guilty anyway and he was a clerk that happened to be at the place. The Timol case is purely religious as Timol was a Muslim and suicide brings dishonour on the family. They needed a murderer to restore family dignity.

Plenty that slipped through the cracks like these cases Zapiro does not show and not one ANC murderer was prosecuted:

Joao Rodriques is currently being prosecuted for the murder of Ahmed Timol.

In stark contrast with these prosecutions, not a single member of the National Executive Committee of the ANC, to whom amnesty has been denied, has ever been prosecuted despite the fact that abundant evidence is available to prove that according to the principle of common purpose in our law, they can be prosecuted in the following cases:

On 20 May 1983, a powerful car bomb exploded in front of the Nedbank Square Building in Church Street, Pretoria, at approximately 4 p.m. (The building was known as the Nedbank Square Maritime House). A total of 19 people was killed, including 12 civilians and 7 members of the Defence Force. A total of 219 people was seriously injured or mutilated, including 217 civilians and 2 members of the Defence Force.

On 23 December 1985, targeting civilian Christmas shoppers, members of Umkhonto weSizwe (MK) placed an explosive device in a refuse bin at the Amanzimtoti shopping centre. 5 civilians were killed and 40 seriously injured and mutilated. Former President Jacob Zuma publicly admitted that these MK members acted under his authority.

On 14 June 1986, a car bomb exploded in front of the Magoos pub in the Parade Hotel in Durban. 3 Civilians were killed and 89 seriously injured and mutilated.

On20 May 1987, a limpet mine and car bomb exploded in front of the Johannesburg Magistrate's Court. 3 Policemen were killed and 15 civilians seriously injured and mutilated.

On 2 July 1988, a car bomb exploded in front of the Ellis Park Rugby Stadium in Johannesburg. Two civilians were killed and 37 were seriously injured and mutilated.

On 25 July 1993, defenceless churchgoers who included women and children, were attacked in the St. James church, Kenilworth, Cape Town with AK47 rifles and hand grenades and 11 killed in cold blood. Many were wounded. Mr. Letlapa Mphahlele, the former president of the PAC, who ordered the attack, was prosecuted and initially appeared in court on multiple charges of murder but the case was postponed and has since disappeared.

More than 90% of the victims of the terrorist acts mentioned above were defenceless civilians, including women and children. These acts were all, from a moral point of view, flagrant violations of the provisions of the Protocol to the Geneva Convention and as such a crime against humanity. Decisions by Amnesty Committees and statements made by members of Umkhonto WeSizwe during amnesty hearings are hereby attached to indicate the extent of the evidence available against members of the National Executive of the ANC who have been denied amnesty.
Don't expect any coherent response to this post.
 

Vrotappel

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There is a lot about crimes that happened during apartheid that we don't know about both committed by the liberation movements and by the pro-apartheid forces.

Sadly, we are probably not going to find a lot because some will go to the graves with their secrets.
Sadly we will find one-sided prosecutions with the sole purpose of reopening wounds of the past whilst we are hemorrhaging from current wounds with no action taken.

Viva ANC Viva!!
 

Kieppie

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This thread once again highlights what scum the ANC is.
I would rather say that both cream and sh.t floats to the top and the ANC does have a lot of the latter.

The lower levels contain normal hard working people.
 

Bonywasawarrioraway

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He was a loon so it's more probable than not he murdered Timol. You are just defending him because he's white.

I have said that all injustices should be exposed which includes ANC crimes and Apartheid force ones.
Stupidity is not a criminal offence, Your allegation makes no sense. As for defending him because he is white, that too lacks substance since as a portugese person he is/was not strictly speaking white but mixed race ie moor/european.
 
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