ALERT : All homeschoolers, or people who plan to do homeschooling...

ArtyLoop

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But surely you understand it's your fault for not moving around the country with your family until you found a suitable school. Not the school system, we're not allowed to criticize that unless it's in relation to the failing ANC then everyone moans.

Unfortunately I cannot find work "everywhere in the country". Remember I have to pay for said education as well as put food on the table.
The school system is flawed. Private is the way to go.
However given the kid's issues homeschooling ended up being the solution and hey at least I don't have to feel embarrassed to tell people where live anymore.

The cANCer is not my argument here... they farked up the school system and we sit with it, but its still within my power to keep my child away from CAPS
 

cerebus

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Unfortunately I cannot find work "everywhere in the country". Remember I have to pay for said education as well as put food on the table.
The school system is flawed. Private is the way to go.
However given the kid's issues homeschooling ended up being the solution and hey at least I don't have to feel embarrassed to tell people where live anymore.

The cANCer is not my argument here... they farked up the school system and we sit with it, but its still within my power to keep my child away from CAPS

Or perhaps my post was entirely sarcastic and not directed at you :p
 

noxibox

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Independent and critical thinking should be an integral part of schooling at every school. They're shirking their responsibility if they try to make this entirely the parents' job.

Keeping children separated by age is definitely a defective, unnatural system. It's done for the convenience of the school.

I've heard from a number of people about the ridiculous homework load in public schools. Additionally quite often this is pointless, boring busywork. It serves no real purpose other than wasting the child's time and crushing their spirit.

Another problem is that teachers are required to stick to a teaching schedule mandated by the education authorities. The result is that those who are struggling must be left behind and those who are ready to move ahead are prevented from doing so. However even without the authorities controlling the teaching schedule down to the day it is an inherent problem in a situation where 20 or more children are taught en masse. It's just been made worse. Ironically the excessive interference was an attempt to address the problem of lazy and useless teachers, which it has failed to do while hindering better teachers.

I know parents who had their children in a Montessori pre-primary and then put their child into a standard primary. Mainly due to fear, uncertainty and doubt - because we are well indoctrinated into the idea of what school should be. They were stunned at how far ahead their children were, but figured that was all to their child's advantage. However after seeing how stressed and bored their child was they moved them to a Montessori primary.

-Home learners must be assessed annually by registered assessors at their own cost.
-Home learners are not allowed to enrol for alternative matric qualifications such as Cambridge and GED.
-The penalty for not attending school is increased from 6 months to 6 years imprisonment.
.........
From the process followed and the content of the bill, it seems that the intention of the DBE is to gain control over home education as well as financially benefit unions and state compliant curriculum suppliers, without consultating homeschooling parents and without providing any evidence that such measures will be in the best interests of the affected children.
If they truly think these changes are in the child's best interests then they are totally delusional. Much more likely is that this is all about control and corruption. I think it makes them truly angry that some people are evading the education department's mess and ensuring their children get a good education. And then there are all those connected people losing out on income. They also want to go after the better funded public schools and private schools, and their statements demonstrate they have not the faintest clue why those schools are better.

I don't see how they'll enforce a prohibition on getting an alternative qualification though. It is easy enough to get both.

With regards to homeschooling something that I have always wondered about is does the over riding instinct that one has, as a parent for your child not affect ones judgement of your child's scholastic abilities and perhaps allow for bias to cloud the assessment of your child?

Are there independent checks and balances that negate this?

I don't get the point with regards to schools limiting independent thought. Some of the greatest independent thinkers of our time all went to traditional schools - Elon Musk, Marck Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Richard Branson for example.
For homeschooling that is not really an issue. There are independent assessments children have to complete and commonly parents consult with experts to identify areas where the child needs additional work. Homeschooling is actually well organised and supported rather than the image of parents locking their children in and randomly teaching them whatever comes to mind.

Richard Branson did very badly at school and generally hated it. He left as soon as he could. Both he and Gates were lucky enough to have parents that encouraged the right kind of thinking and attitude that went on to serve them well in life. None of those people appear to have had poor, uneducated parents who worked long hours and thus had to rely more heavily on schools and teachers. Furthermore the fact that people manage to survive the inherent deficiencies in the mainstream schooling method is not a good reason to subject our children to it unless we really have to.

[MENTION=449868]RMTaylor[/MENTION] That stuff seems pretty cool for your kid at the moment, but what's the long-term plan? I assume you're going to hook him up with a formal primary and secondary education so that he can study further if he so chooses? Are you going to settle down somewhere when it's time for grade 1?
Those who want to go to university get the necessary high school certificate to do so. Alternatively they do some other studying to get credits that will get them entry. Others simply become entrepreneurs in their area of interest. If we're going to use successful and wealthy people as examples then we can point to Richard Branson who never even finished school and Bill Gates who dropped out of university.

Reason 1 is valid. Reason 2 I cannot comment as our children are doing IEB. The remaining 2 are the chips on your shoulders.
According to the IEB they cover the same as the national curriculum, but have their own exam standards.

Number 4 is a very valid issue and nothing to do with anyone having a chip on their shoulder. What we should question is some religious people's desperate need to use schools as an opportunity to proselytize.

Utter nonsense.
Traditional schooling methods are very much about conformism. It is intentionally so.

Here's the thing - there ARE schools that encourage critical thinking. Problem is most parents can't / won't be bothered to seek them out. Or are not prepared to travel longer distances to get there.
Of course parents with resources do all those things. That doesn't address the general need. Furthermore why waste a couple of hours of your child's day in a car when they could simply learn at home? Or why generally waste children's time instead of expecting that schools be fixed and teachers do their job properly?

Or are not prepared to move home to enable their kids to attend.
That's hardly ever practical. But when they can parents do in fact move to get into a school's area.
 

ArtyLoop

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With respect to independent thinking-
I come out of the apartheid school system. That was even worse. Critical thinking was actively dealt with by the use of a rattan flogger.

I taught my child to think for himself as soon as I possibly could. Because out of critical thinking comes the good stuff, the stuff that makes government sh*t their pants
 

Other Pineapple Smurf

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You won't find a public school that can expose a child to the same quality of education that they can get for the same cost at home - not by a long shot.
.....

Or you could send them to private schools which are reputed to be very good, but then we'd need to spend around 15k/ month for that alone, in which case my wife would need to go back to work, and for what?

Then you obviously have not looked at our top local public primary schools. Parents take their kids out of homeschooling to get them into them, not the other way around.

Actually, most homeschooled kids can't get in.

Also you need to relook at private schools, some of the local ones compete against public school for cost. Looked into it again this past week for high schooling as we only have one good excellent public high school.
 

cerebus

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Then you obviously have not looked at our top local public primary schools. Parents take their kids out of homeschooling to get them into them, not the other way around.

Well, our son was in Beaumont, so...yeah ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Actually, most homeschooled kids can't get in.

You got stats on that?

Also you need to relook at private schools, some of the local ones compete against public school for cost. Looked into it again this past week for high schooling as we only have one good excellent public high school.

The best and cheapest in the area that we're aware of is Curro, which offers pretty good value for money. But as I said, it's around 15k/month when you include all activities, books, travel, and the rest of it for our 3. It's not in the same ballpark as public school costs, which are probably around R5k for our children. And actually I have no problem paying R5k or r15k if I felt it was the best possible education they could get, but I don't feel that way. My children hated school and they are thriving since coming home.

Also, on a similar note - our intention is for our children to start on Cambridge and then get their GCSEs and A-levels. That's not a possibility in public schooling.
 

Other Pineapple Smurf

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As for moving... I moved to another province to get decent schooling for my child- in the end homeschooling was the ticket..
Its not about moaning and your comment makes me think you don't have any children. If you did you'd understand its not just a case of let's move little Johnny to another school and move house just like that.

I live in an area where we have a massive influx of families wanting to give their kids the best opportunities in life. Our good schools all have waiting lists forcing many of these parents to homeschool or use private schools.

I've one friend in that situation where he is homeschooling his kids as they are on a waiting list for a local school. I also have family who live in remote areas as a lifestyle choice and homeschooling is the best option for their kids.
 

cerebus

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I live in an area where we have a massive influx of families wanting to give their kids the best opportunities in life. Our good schools all have waiting lists forcing many of these parents to homeschool or use private schools.

Yes that is quite true, there are so many families struggling to get their children into the better schools in this area. And not all can afford the alternative of private schools, so they're forced to do homeschooling out of simply not having another option. I don't see how making it illegal to homeschool is going to solve anything in that case.
 

MrsCerebus

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Then you obviously have not looked at our top local public primary schools. Parents take their kids out of homeschooling to get them into them, not the other way around.

Actually, most homeschooled kids can't get in.

Also you need to relook at private schools, some of the local ones compete against public school for cost. Looked into it again this past week for high schooling as we only have one good excellent public high school.

Really? If you can give me hard facts for sure...I know of very few homeschooling families, if any who actually want their kids back in school, unless they have to due to finances mainly. Our child was in the top primary school yes, but half way through his grade one year he could not read? He fell through the cracks as the poor young teacher has to manage 32 grade one children, and he did not cope with the masses of children bumping into him all the time.

Homeschool kids cannot get in? Where? It is a childs human right to get an education and be allowed into a school, you are welcome to come and visit my home, and test my children...they are miles ahead of their peers who sits in said school every day! Academically, socially and much more confident and happy. Weekly there are posts of parents on the local facebook groups of looking for a psychologist for their child who struggles with depression and anxiety.

Right now my kids helped in the house, and they are playing, having fun, their peers are sitting in a class room, being taugth how to fit into a system, not how to be an individual.

And what I always say about those against homeschooling.....if you dont really know all that much about it, then scroll on!
 

Other Pineapple Smurf

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Well, our son was in Beaumont, so...yeah ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



You got stats on that?

Even better, got personal feedback from parents and not just from one school.

So these parents needs to ether address the problems of their homeschooling system (not all are equal as we all know), or put their kids into schools with such low standards that they might as well not do it at all.

The parents fail the system, not the system failing the parents.

The best and cheapest in the area that we're aware of is Curro, which offers pretty good value for money. But as I said, it's around 15k/month when you include all activities, books, travel, and the rest of it for our 3. It's not in the same ballpark as public school costs, which are probably around R5k for our children. And actually I have no problem paying R5k or r15k if I felt it was the best possible education they could get, but I don't feel that way. My children hated school and they are thriving since coming home.

The fees I saw for them last week was significantly lower and not much more than what we are currently paying.

Also, on a similar note - our intention is for our children to start on Cambridge and then get their GCSEs and A-levels. That's not a possibility in public schooling.

That is great.

For us we will consider the option of homeschooling / private schools once our kids are in high school and what they want to achieve. A couple of my friends have done this for the final two years of schooling and given me valuable feedback.
 

Other Pineapple Smurf

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Really? If you can give me hard facts for sure...I know of very few homeschooling families, if any who actually want their kids back in school, unless they have to due to finances mainly. Our child was in the top primary school yes, but half way through his grade one year he could not read? He fell through the cracks as the poor young teacher has to manage 32 grade one children, and he did not cope with the masses of children bumping into him all the time.

Homeschool kids cannot get in? Where? It is a childs human right to get an education and be allowed into a school, you are welcome to come and visit my home, and test my children...they are miles ahead of their peers who sits in said school every day! Academically, socially and much more confident and happy. Weekly there are posts of parents on the local facebook groups of looking for a psychologist for their child who struggles with depression and anxiety.

Right now my kids helped in the house, and they are playing, having fun, their peers are sitting in a class room, being taugth how to fit into a system, not how to be an individual.

And what I always say about those against homeschooling.....if you dont really know all that much about it, then scroll on!

Defensive much.

I've seen the posts, I've read your replies and followed the threads but I never comment.

I only comment on this forum.

I also get to hear both sides of each schooling system. I don't believe in a one size fits all solution.
 

cerebus

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Even better, got personal feedback from parents and not just from one school.

So these parents needs to ether address the problems of their homeschooling system (not all are equal as we all know), or put their kids into schools with such low standards that they might as well not do it at all.

I don't know what you're talking about.

The parents fail the system, not the system failing the parents.

It's not my job to make a broken system good.

The fees I saw for them last week was significantly lower and not much more than what we are currently paying.

Which schools? I'd be genuinely interested to know. My wife has called around a lot of places and Curro is the cheapest and best option we could find.

For us we will consider the option of homeschooling / private schools once our kids are in high school and what they want to achieve. A couple of my friends have done this for the final two years of schooling and given me valuable feedback.

I'm nervous what will happen when the children get to the age where their requirements exceed our own abilities. But we'll have to cross that bridge when we get to it; maybe we won't be in this country much longer in any case.
 

Bryn

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Those who want to go to university get the necessary high school certificate to do so. Alternatively they do some other studying to get credits that will get them entry. Others simply become entrepreneurs in their area of interest. If we're going to use successful and wealthy people as examples then we can point to Richard Branson who never even finished school and Bill Gates who dropped out of university.

Not to necessarily disagree with your general point, but using billionaire examples for why dropping out is fine doesn't hold for most cases.

Bill Gates didn't drop out of anywhere - he dropped out of Harvard. Lecturers from his time have said he was an unbelievably brilliant student and lamented losing him. He simply dropped out because he felt his business ambitions had to hit the market immediately.

Zuckerberg also dropped out of Harvard and was known as a programming prodigy while there. Branson may have ended his education much earlier, but his interviews and books bring him across as a very intelligent individual.

It just seems a bit unfair to put kids in a position where they have to be incredibly smart and enterprising to make a success of themselves.
 

Trompie67

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You won't find a public school that can expose a child to the same quality of education that they can get for the same cost at home - not by a long shot. Our bookshelves are overflowing with age appropriate literature, and what's shocking to me is that they're actually reading it. My sons are beginning to sprint past their peers in reading and maths - the difference is quite striking.

Now, I do have some other good friends who use public schools and their daughter is also a prolific reader, but again it's mainly due to the influence of their parents who don't have a tv at home and just pack the shelves with books. In that case the benefit of school is negligible.

Or you could send them to private schools which are reputed to be very good, but then we'd need to spend around 15k/ month for that alone, in which case my wife would need to go back to work, and for what?

Our local high school is R1,000 a month. You're telling me you can provide better education, sport & cultural activities by spending R1k a month at home? I call BS.

Public school in ZA is a waste of time. There are a (very) few ex model-c schools that still provide fairly decent education, but their fees equate to 1 term at a private school anyway, so hardly "public" school rates.

Unfortunately, when it comes to schools, the old adage "you get what you pay for" rings mostly true. In ZA right now anyway.

As for moving... I moved to another province to get decent schooling for my child- in the end homeschooling was the ticket..
Its not about moaning and your comment makes me think you don't have any children. If you did you'd understand its not just a case of let's move little Johnny to another school and move house just like that.

You should learn to read for understanding, not for answering. I stated our children are doing IEB syllabus, ergo, I have children.

You don't seem to understand - we moved house & schools to give our children what we believed was a quality education. Yes we travel more to/from work. Choices...... some can and do make them. Others won't.

But surely you understand it's your fault for not moving around the country with your family until you found a suitable school. Not the school system, we're not allowed to criticize that unless it's in relation to the ANC then everyone moans.

Ah, sarcasm. The lowest form of wit.
 

cerebus

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Our local high school is R1,000 a month. You're telling me you can provide better education, sport & cultural activities by spending R1k a month at home? I call BS.

R1k? No but spread across 3 children, yes we can easily provide better all-the-above under R3k. It's quite easy. We can buy our own books, go to regular activities and sports, and all the rest of it.

Public school in ZA is a waste of time. There are a (very) few ex model-c schools that still provide fairly decent education, but their fees equate to 1 term at a private school anyway, so hardly "public" school rates.

Unfortunately, when it comes to schools, the old adage "you get what you pay for" rings mostly true. In ZA right now anyway.

So, all parents should put their children into private schools? I'm sorry, I don't know what you're getting at here.

You don't seem to understand - we moved house & schools to give our children what we believed was a quality education. Yes we travel more to/from work. Choices...... some can and do make them. Others won't.

You're quite out of line to insist that if parents don't move across the country to get their kids into one of the few good remaining public schools it's their fault. Not everyone is in that position. For us, we also made the difficult choice to have my wife stay at home with the children instead of working. She pays (in my opinion) quite a high price personally to do that. In a sense that's the highest cost of homeschooling because we have also had to forego her income, but we feel it's worthwhile for what it instills in the children.
 

Trompie67

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I cannot be bothered to quote and quote & quote & then answer. Not enough time right now.

noisynox - IEB is, broadly speaking, the same as CAPS. However the additional and added value from IEB preparation eclipses anything you will find in a public school.

What one also forgets, and which only RM touched on in his own way, is that one needs to present children with opportunities. Opportunities to discover what they like & what they can become passionate about. It is in that sphere that private schooling destroys any public school.

Our son is in grade 11 - in addition to the normal syllabus he's currently doing AP math, physics & chemistry. He is crazy about all 3 subjects plus EGD. Show me a public school where he can do that. Show me a public school, where, for no additional cost, the math, chemistry, physics & EGD teachers give individual extra lessons at 06h30 5 days a week, and on Saturdays from 06h30 to 09h00.

Our daughter is in grade 8, her passion is horses. it is a school recognised sport too. Teachers attend competitions, with full school regalia & support - gazebo, banners/flags, cooldrinks & food for the kids. Public and/or home school ain't going to see that.

My point may be made too harshly - I have no issue with home schooling, parents (mostly) do what they believe is best. I do not see homeschooling (or even "worldschooling" what an idiotic phrase) as being the best for our children. Neither does my wife.
 

The_Librarian

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Yay, some good and bad news.

The bad - the dept discarded a LOT of emails.

The good news :

Received from Karin from Pestalozzi Trust
Update Red Alert:
Thank you for your prayers and for sending in your letters and calling the DBE on the draft Home Ed Policy to be removed from the CEM meeting agenda.
The Pestalozzi Trust is extremely satisfied with the result of this campaign thus far.
We have shown the DBE that Homeschoolers will fight each step of the way. We have gathered further evidence of a refusal to consult with homeschoolers. We have also ensured that the Policy can’t sneak through under the radar. The Pestalozzi Trust can now approach the DBE with evidence of the commitment of our support base.

What to do now?
(1) Thank the LORD for His faithful protection. We are in His hand. Ps 71.
(2) Send your letter per instructions in the Alert (www.stopthepolicy.org), if you haven't done so already.
(3) Help to spread the correct message. The correct message is: This Alert concerns the POLICY not the BELABILL (that is a different battle). This is one battle in a long war, which has been raging for 20+ years, and will probably still rage for years to come. It is a battle for the minds and hearts of our children. It is important to keep faith, and not panic. If the Policy is passed, homeschooling will not be illegal, but could definitely be more difficult. We'll explain in more details in a YouTube video why it is important that the DBE make the Policy available and consult with homeschoolers. The video will be a follow-up of the webinar. We'll also explain in writing in a newsletter to our members.
Thank you so much for standing firm and bringing this matter before the Lord our God.
 

noxibox

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IEB is, broadly speaking, the same as CAPS. However the additional and added value from IEB preparation eclipses anything you will find in a public school.
This is indeed the common misconception. It is in fact exactly the same as CAPS. They use the same textbooks and follow the exact same teaching and homework timetable. The only difference is the exams they write, which are generally a bit more challenging. This doesn't tell us anything about the quality of teaching or preparation, which is known to be of a very high standard at the good government schools. There are also shoddy private schools.

The question is why they're even following CAPS instead of one of the available international qualifications.

It is in that sphere that private schooling destroys any public school.
You can keep on believing that if you wish, but again the quality government schools offer a great deal.

Show me a public school, where, for no additional cost, the math, chemistry, physics & EGD teachers give individual extra lessons at 06h30 5 days a week
Pretty much every good state school will have teachers willing to do so. Besides which it is not at no additional cost in private school - you've already paid extra for it even if you don't use it.

Our daughter is in grade 8, her passion is horses. it is a school recognised sport too. Teachers attend competitions, with full school regalia & support - gazebo, banners/flags, cooldrinks & food for the kids. Public and/or home school ain't going to see that.
Which is totally irrelevant. Unless one has some sort of bizarre need for school recognition of a particular sport. And barring the most expensive private schools a child can easily have a sport or hobby interest that is not officially offered by the school. That pretty much includes the majority of private schools. In addition there is simply no way any school can offer all possible interests and sports, even the most expensive schools.
 

The_Librarian

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UPDATE :

The Pestalozzi Trust was made aware earlier in the day through unofficial channels that the Council of Education Ministers (CEM) has met and approved the draft Policy on Home Education. We must stress that this is not an official response from the Ministry of Education.

As the home education movement is aware, the Pestalozzi Trust had received credible information Friday a week ago that this was going to occur and we worked through the week-end to launch a write-in campaign.

Thanks to your efforts that campaign was highly successful, with some reports saying that over 1000 letters were sent to the Ministry. While we had hoped that the Minister would act in a democratic fashion and listen to the requests of home educators we had strong grounds for expecting that the Ministry and the Education Department have a pre-determined outcome that they desire. Therefore, we also had to take a more realistic view that the Minister would not listen to your requests and plan for that eventuality. Our response will be forthcoming on the following days and weeks, after we have officially corroborated the outcome of the meeting.

If in fact the draft Policy has been passed through CEM in spite of your requests to have the opportunity to approach your elected representatives as informed citizens, this will greatly strengthen our court case. We have 1000 pieces of evidence that neither the Minister or the DBE are willing to engage in meaningful consultation with the home education movement. Consultation with the governed is a pillar of our constitution and the courts will readily strike down policy, regulations and even laws where public input has been ignored.

Thank you again. Your actions over the last week have strengthened our case immeasurably and we have taken a vital step to secure your, your children and your grandchildren's right to home education.

The Chairman of the Trust, Bouwe van der Eems, is awaiting an official confirmation from the Ministry. We will keep members informed of developments. More information to follow.

The Trust is not at this time asking members to take any further actions.

Going to be interesting going forward.
 
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